What Not To Wear (while riding)


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SAFE-T

New Member
Raising awareness is like peeing in a dark suit. Almost nobody else notices until you do it everyday.

I'm not saying the no-gear ride through Deal's Gap was brilliant. It was pretty silly. But I think it made a valid point ~ riding without proper gear looks as stupid as it is ~ without actually exposing themselves to any more risk than if they had been riding bicycles.

What would have truly made it dumb is if they had gone through at high speed, hanging off and pretending to drag knees.
 
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leprecaun jon

ESTABLISHED RESIDENT
Elite Member
SAFE-T said:
The point you continue to miss is that these people are all not me. Next.
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i believe the point you sir continue to miss is..... these people are not you.... yet.... it doesnt matter who you are... if you keep a mind set like that... and ride without gear you will become the next maybe not today maybe not tommorow.... but the fact is it will happen....those that are geared up just have a higher chance of walking away... fact is 3 motorcyclists die every day..... the difference between who dies and lives can entirley depend on the gear they wear....a motorcyclist not geared up even without a helmet is at 99.8% more risk than a rider entirley geared from head to toe.... a motorclist only wearing a helmet and no other gear is at 85% more risk than a rider geared head to toe.... im at work so i cant post sources.... but there are plenty out there...riding a bike is a risk.... the safest way to ride is to manage that risk and "break the chain" of risk like they taught us in MSF
 
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Chevyfazer

New Member
leprecaun jon said:
i believe the point you sir continue to miss is..... these people are not you.... yet.... it doesnt matter who you are... if you keep a mind set like that... and ride without gear you will become the next maybe not today maybe not tommorow.... but the fact is it will happen....those that are geared up just have a higher chance of walking away... fact is 3 motorcyclists die every day..... the difference between who dies and lives can entirley depend on the gear they wear....a motorcyclist not geared up even without a helmet is at 99.8% more risk than a rider entirley geared from head to toe.... a motorclist only wearing a helmet and no other gear is at 85% more risk than a rider geared head to toe.... im at work so i cant post sources.... but there are plenty out there...riding a bike is a risk.... the safest way to ride is to manage that risk and "break the chain" of risk like they taught us in MSF
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I think you are misunderstanding what safe-t was saying by "these people are not me" because he says he is ATGATT

He is referring to those in the pictures I posted, it helps if you read the previous post lol

And talking about them, it's not like they rode the whole way like that, they only did it for less than a 1/2 mile a couple times traveling around 30mph just for a "photo op" there was a huge pile of leathers just around the corner where they "unrobed" and the fact that their pictures brought on quite a bit of conversation about gear I'd say they accomplished exact what they were trying to do. Believe it or not there are quite a few riders out there who simply dont know better than to ride around in shorts and t's and think that people who gear up and just trying to "look cool" and if they happen to make just 1 person realize the difference then I say that it was mission accomplished!
 
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SAFE-T

New Member
leprecaun jon said:
i believe the point you sir continue to miss is..... these people are not you.... yet.... it doesnt matter who you are... if you keep a mind set like that... and ride without gear you will become the next maybe not today maybe not tommorow.... but the fact is it will happen....
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Actually, the statistics show I have a really really low chance of being killed, a really low chance of being seriously hurt, and a low chance of being hurt a little. Crashing is hardly a certainty, and may never happen at all.

I have had one 60mph once-in-a-lifetime collision with a deer almost like this one:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TQMo7IU6-o]Rally WV Deer Strike - YouTube[/ame]

I was ATGATT so not hurt badly, and glad of it. But it also never crossed my mind that was going to be the day I crashed into an animal ~ I never had before and I never have since.

The problem is getting other people to understand why it is important to wear ATGATT even when their individual risk of crashing is so low that they don't perceive there is any real risk at all.
 
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SAFE-T

New Member
International risk expert David Ropeik has taken an in-depth look at our perceptions of risk and explains the hidden factors that make us unnecessarily afraid of relatively small threats and not afraid enough of some really big ones. "How Risky Is It, Really?: Why Our Fears Don't Always Match the Facts" is a comprehensive, accessible, and entertaining mixture of what's been discovered about how and why we fear—too much or too little. It brings into focus the danger of The Perception Gap: when our fears don’t match the facts, and how we make choices that create additional risks.

Chapter 4 discusses the sociological aspects of risk perception: how our estimation of risk depends on that of the people around us. This is the part I think is particularly applicable to this discussion in this forum.

Risk is a subjective affair. It’s not just a matter of the facts, but also how those facts feel. Understanding why some risks feel more frightening, and some less, is essential for communicating about risk effectively, and for tackling the human behavioral aspects of overall risk management.

Source: David Ropeik Author and Consultant
 
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leprecaun jon

ESTABLISHED RESIDENT
Elite Member
Chevyfazer said:
I think you are misunderstanding what safe-t was saying by "these people are not me" because he says he is ATGATT

He is referring to those in the pictures I posted, it helps if you read the previous post lol

And talking about them, it's not like they rode the whole way like that, they only did it for less than a 1/2 mile a couple times traveling around 30mph just for a "photo op" there was a huge pile of leathers just around the corner where they "unrobed" and the fact that their pictures brought on quite a bit of conversation about gear I'd say they accomplished exact what they were trying to do. Believe it or not there are quite a few riders out there who simply dont know better than to ride around in shorts and t's and think that people who gear up and just trying to "look cool" and if they happen to make just 1 person realize the difference then I say that it was mission accomplished!
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i read the previous post.... guess i misunderstood what all i read :confused:
 
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leprecaun jon

ESTABLISHED RESIDENT
Elite Member
SAFE-T said:
Actually, the statistics show I have a really really low chance of being killed, a really low chance of being seriously hurt, and a low chance of being hurt a little. Crashing is hardly a certainty, and may never happen at all.

I have had one 60mph once-in-a-lifetime collision with a deer almost like this one:

Rally WV Deer Strike - YouTube

I was ATGATT so not hurt badly, and glad of it. But it also never crossed my mind that was going to be the day I crashed into an animal ~ I never had before and I never have since.

The problem is getting other people to understand why it is important to wear ATGATT even when their individual risk of crashing is so low that they don't perceive there is any real risk at all.
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you have valid points...statistically the relativity of someone crashing is low...but not all the risk is the rider.... its the riders surroundings....the risks are other people... and things....ill admit 3 people a day is a rather low ratio for the 10s of thousands of riders in the world....beings how my last post i misread.. and misunderstood... i no longer have ground in my argument....im still confused lol
 
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buzzbomb

Senior Member
Elite Member
SAFE-T said:
International risk expert David Ropeik has taken an in-depth look at our perceptions of risk and explains the hidden factors that make us unnecessarily afraid of relatively small threats and not afraid enough of some really big ones. "How Risky Is It, Really?: Why Our Fears Don't Always Match the Facts" is a comprehensive, accessible, and entertaining mixture of what's been discovered about how and why we fear—too much or too little. It brings into focus the danger of The Perception Gap: when our fears don’t match the facts, and how we make choices that create additional risks.

Chapter 4 discusses the sociological aspects of risk perception: how our estimation of risk depends on that of the people around us. This is the part I think is particularly applicable to this discussion in this forum.

Risk is a subjective affair. It’s not just a matter of the facts, but also how those facts feel. Understanding why some risks feel more frightening, and some less, is essential for communicating about risk effectively, and for tackling the human behavioral aspects of overall risk management.

Source: David Ropeik Author and Consultant
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That's beautifully said. I feel your overthinking it, though. "Risk is subjective?" No, it's not. One's perception of the risk may be, but the actual risk is not subject to one's perception of it.

If I'm playing golf in a rain storm, and raise my driver for the swing, I'm taking a risk. The risk is that lightening may strike me. Small chance, for sure. I'f I'm texting while driving, I'm taking a risk. Chances are, no bad things will happen, but I'm taking that risk.

If I'm riding a motorcycle, I'm taking a risk. Chances are no bad things will happen. When you read the story of the golfer who got struck by lightening, you think "Dumbass!" The person who crashed while texting? Dumbass.

The perception of the risk may be different, but it doesn't change the reality of the risk. The biker who goes down without gear? Sure, slim chance. When it happens? Dumbass.
 
D

Detrich

New Member
I like the seatbelt & airbag analogy. Wearing a seat belt and having airbags in your car won't make u a safer driver. But, they help increase your chances of survival- should something happen that's beyond your control... Plain & simple.

Wearing proper safety gear while riding a motorcycle is no different, and it follows the exact same logic. It doesn't make u a better or safer rider. But, it helps increase your chances of surviving a mishap. Plain & simple.

Those who choose not to wear safety gear make a personal choice. And, all other things being equal, they are more at risk in this respect- period...

I honestly dunno why anyone would even try to argue against this. If you don't want to wear gear- then don't wear it. No one really cares, and it's your life & your own choice.

However, as a riding community & forum, we just want to make sure we encourage what we consider to be wise and smart choices when it comes to motorcycle safety. That's why we strongly recommend & preach ATGATT.

If it bothers you, then read a different thread, or join a different forum. But, please respect this forum and don't try to twist the arguments and peddle BS with statistics and 3000 lb car crash crap.

No one ever said anything about safety gear being 100%. And, every accident impact is different. Yes we get it.

Sheesh.
 
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leprecaun jon

ESTABLISHED RESIDENT
Elite Member
buzzbomb said:
That's beautifully said. I feel your overthinking it, though. "Risk is subjective?" No, it's not. One's perception of the risk may be, but the actual risk is not subject to one's perception of it.

If I'm playing golf in a rain storm, and raise my driver for the swing, I'm taking a risk. The risk is that lightening may strike me. Small chance, for sure. I'f I'm texting while driving, I'm taking a risk. Chances are, no bad things will happen, but I'm taking that risk.

If I'm riding a motorcycle, I'm taking a risk. Chances are no bad things will happen. When you read the story of the golfer who got struck by lightening, you think "Dumbass!" The person who crashed while texting? Dumbass.

The perception of the risk may be different, but it doesn't change the reality of the risk. The biker who goes down without gear? Sure, slim chance. When it happens? Dumbass.
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thats kinda what i wanted to say last night...... i just couldn't word it or spit it out......thank you :)
 
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leprecaun jon

ESTABLISHED RESIDENT
Elite Member
N

Nastybutler

Cynical Member
Elite Member
D

Detrich

New Member
Maybe he bought new ankle socks and wants to show the cameraman so it gets in the picture? lol... xP

Either he has really skinny legs or is wearing really baggy jeans. Regardless, the guy needs to get some lower body gear.
 
M

MichaelInVenice

Lot of Class, Mostly Low
Elite Member
Detrich said:
I like the seatbelt & airbag analogy. Wearing a seat belt and having airbags in your car won't make u a safer driver. But, they help increase your chances of survival- should something happen that's beyond your control... Plain & simple.

Wearing proper safety gear while riding a motorcycle is no different, and it follows the exact same logic. It doesn't make u a better or safer rider. But, it helps increase your chances of surviving a mishap. Plain & simple.

Those who choose not to wear safety gear make a personal choice. And, all other things being equal, they are more at risk in this respect- period...

I honestly dunno why anyone would even try to argue against this. If you don't want to wear gear- then don't wear it. No one really cares, and it's your life & your own choice.

However, as a riding community & forum, we just want to make sure we encourage what we consider to be wise and smart choices when it comes to motorcycle safety. That's why we strongly recommend & preach ATGATT.

If it bothers you, then read a different thread, or join a different forum. But, please respect this forum and don't try to twist the arguments and peddle BS with statistics and 3000 lb car crash crap.

No one ever said anything about safety gear being 100%. And, every accident impact is different. Yes we get it.

Sheesh.
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Unfortuantely, there are some out there who are still arguing vehemently that helmets increase the risk of injury. Their own personal choice has become such a religion to them that they feel they have to rationalize it by telling you that they've figured out some "real" safety issues that you're obviously too stupid to know about...

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are certain types of injuries that are more likely when you're wearing a few pounds of helmet and quite a bit of bulk on your head than when you're not. But those aren't the injuries that kill you in a crash. No piece of gear is perfect and all of them will introduce some risks that won't exist without them.

Which is why rather than preach ATGATT, I like to say "appropriate gear at all times." What's appropriate for a 35mph stop-and-go commute in traffic is probably quite different from what would be appropriate on a track, and still different from what you would want to wear for a dual-sport or dirt-bike ride.
 
C

Chevyfazer

New Member
Guys he is not trying to promote not wearing gear he has said numerous times he is ATGATT. He was talking about the guys in the picture who rode past a camera in their underwear and wether or not it was a good idea to promote the wearing of gear by possible making people realize how silly they look when not wearing gear. The risk perception thing is also aimed at that seeing how when people are perceived riding a motorcycle naked vs fully geared.

Once again he is not trying to make arguments for not wearing gear....
 
B

buzzbomb

Senior Member
Elite Member
0

0150r

New Member
Nastybutler said:
Maybe he's getting ready for a sharper right hand turn after the left one he's in? :confused:
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After that corner there is another left hand corner before getting to one that turns right. I think I remember seeing a few other pictures doing the same thing...doesn't make sense.
 

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stevet

New Member
Good post Michael. Being as safe as we can be should be our primary concern. People think it wont happen to them like a friend that lost a leg. What is worth that?
 
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