Two Brothers Juice Box + Header?

[MikeN02]

Was thinking this way might be cheaper, but not sure if it might work. I might email Two Brothers and ask them about it.

Basically my issue right now is the Dyno tuning.
I got quoted $30 for a standard dyno tuning and $275 for diagnostics which is basically them running it again after the exhaust is on and telling me what I need etc.

But if I do a custom mapping after the diagnostics then I get -75 off so it would only be $200 for the diagnostics + Custom map for PCV.

$70 R6 Headers + $30 First Dyno tune + $200 Diagnostics + $300 PCV + $300~ Slip on = $1,000

Now, my idea is to get the R6 headers, throw on a two brothers slip on and a two brothers juice box.

I believe that you should be able to re-use your old bolts and gaskets. I talked to Two Brothers and they said that the Juicebox would work just fine for our application, since their full system is similar to what we're doing here. No need for a full dyno tune unless you are trying to get every single tenth of a horsepower out of the motor.

I'm not sure about this but that's the reason I'm getting the two brothers slip on in case, I wanted to get a Yoshi pipe to be honest.

$70 R6 Header + $250 Juicebox + $300~ Exhaust = $620

 

[joloy133]

Was thinking this way might be cheaper, but not sure if it might work. I might email Two Brothers and ask them about it.

Basically my issue right now is the Dyno tuning.
I got quoted $30 for a standard dyno tuning and $275 for diagnostics which is basically them running it again after the exhaust is on and telling me what I need etc.

But if I do a custom mapping after the diagnostics then I get -75 off so it would only be $200 for the diagnostics + Custom map for PCV.

$70 R6 Headers + $30 First Dyno tune + $200 Diagnostics + $300 PCV + $300~ Slip on = $1,000

Now, my idea is to get the R6 headers, throw on a two brothers slip on and a two brothers juice box.



I'm not sure about this but that's the reason I'm getting the two brothers slip on in case, I wanted to get a Yoshi pipe to be honest.

$70 R6 Header + $250 Juicebox + $300~ Exhaust = $620

If you really want the Yoshi pipe do some research. Here's my thought, the juicebox is calibrated for the TBR but it reads, monitors, and adjusts based on the exhaust gas output/mixture, any exhaust gas. If you used the juicebox with a yoshi can would it really be different? The exhaust designs are so similar in construction and freeflowing characteristics. I went the PCV route and the dyno shows what is the best settings based on the exhaust gases at the muffler. The values that sync the juicebox with TBR systems I bet would be close enough for the yoshi and if you have a manual adjustment feature you could probably dial it in based on mileage values or whatever. Talk to the exhaust specialists and racers in your area about this and get their read if you have the time. (I'm a little radical sometimes!)

 

[99vengeur]

You can make manual adjustments with the JB, and the best part is that you can do it on-the-fly! No computer required. :thumbup: Plus, it's $100 or so dollars cheaper.

If you went with a custom exhaust set up, you could get the JB and input the settings to your liking. I'm sure there really isn't much difference between the TBR and other exhausts for our bike. That said, you could start with the pre-programmed TBR setting and fine tune it from there to match up with whatever can you put on.

 

[MikeN02]

If you really want the Yoshi pipe do some research. Here's my thought, the juicebox is calibrated for the TBR but it reads, monitors, and adjusts based on the exhaust gas output/mixture, any exhaust gas. If you used the juicebox with a yoshi can would it really be different? The exhaust designs are so similar in construction and freeflowing characteristics. I went the PCV route and the dyno shows what is the best settings based on the exhaust gases at the muffler. The values that sync the juicebox with TBR systems I bet would be close enough for the yoshi and if you have a manual adjustment feature you could probably dial it in based on mileage values or whatever. Talk to the exhaust specialists and racers in your area about this and get their read if you have the time. (I'm a little radical sometimes!)

The thing that pointed me to the Two Brothers Juice box is the FZ6R map that is already on there, so that's why I don't know if it would work or not.

You can make manual adjustments with the JB, and the best part is that you can do it on-the-fly! No computer required. :thumbup: Plus, it's $100 or so dollars cheaper.

If you went with a custom exhaust set up, you could get the JB and input the settings to your liking. I'm sure there really isn't much difference between the TBR and other exhausts for our bike. That said, you could start with the pre-programmed TBR setting and fine tune it from there to match up with whatever can you put on.

That's what I was thinking of, using the TBR setting. Wondering why no one went this way though... It would be cheaper if you wanted the sound and styling. I personally don't really know much about tuning and all that to use the PCV to the fullest.

:EDIT: Just got a reply from Two Bros:

We have never tested what you are interested in doing, so I can't say it will or won't work as far as fitment. The FZ6-R Juice box ( http://www.twobros.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=008-257 ) uses a map our R&D specialists designed using our exhaust system on an R&D FZ6-R. We have not tested it with any other configuration of exhaust components.
I recommend the Juice Box with our full system : http://www.twobros.com/cgi-bin/shop.../TBRSearchResult-Simple-Yam-FZ6R-FULL-09.html

 

[99vengeur]

That's what I was thinking of, using the TBR setting. Wondering why no one went this way though... It would be cheaper if you wanted the sound and styling. I personally don't really know much about tuning and all that to use the PCV to the fullest.

:EDIT: Just got a reply from Two Bros:

We have never tested what you are interested in doing, so I can't say it will or won't work as far as fitment. The FZ6-R Juice box ( Two Brothers Racing, add an item to your shopping cart: ) uses a map our R&D specialists designed using our exhaust system on an R&D FZ6-R. We have not tested it with any other configuration of exhaust components.
I recommend the Juice Box with our full system : Two Brothers Racing :: Yamaha FZ-6R Motorcycle Exhausts, Street Bike Parts, Aftermarket MX ATV Motorcycle Accessories, Exhaust Pipe, Race Exhaust Systems, Sport Bike Parts

Of course they do! More money in their pocket! :spank:

Go with what you want. Since you can adjust the amount of fuel being delivered, you have no worries because it can always be changed to your application.

 

[MikeN02]

Of course they do! More money in their pocket! :spank:

Go with what you want. Since you can adjust the amount of fuel being delivered, you have no worries because it can always be changed to your application.

So you're saying it will work? I won't have much trouble or any at all since I have the Juice Box to adjust the settings etc if it runs too lean or rich?

 

[99vengeur]

So you're saying it will work? I won't have much trouble or any at all since I have the Juice Box to adjust the settings etc if it runs too lean or rich?

I would say that you won't have any trouble.

With the JB, you have several settings for adjusting the fuel being added. You can decide how much to add and when to add it. You can add it during cruising, acceleration or full-throttle. You can also set it to start adding at any given rpm you choose.

With that much flexibility, you would be hard pressed not to find a setting that would work with just about any exhaust setup.

 

[MikeN02]

I would say that you won't have any trouble.

With the JB, you have several settings for adjusting the fuel being added. You can decide how much to add and when to add it. You can add it during cruising, acceleration or full-throttle. You can also set it to start adding at any given rpm you choose.

With that much flexibility, you would be hard pressed not to find a setting that would work with just about any exhaust setup.

So is it possible just to leave it at a certain "fuel range" and just ride without worrying about it?

 

[99vengeur]

So is it possible just to leave it at a certain "fuel range" and just ride without worrying about it?

Absolutely! Since I have the TBR exhaust, I just left it at the settings it came with. It is pre-determined to add a certain amount of fuel once I get above 2000 rpm (so basically all the time). If, by chance, it starts to run rich or lean, I can adjust it accordingly and then leave it alone.

 

[MikeN02]

Absolutely! Since I have the TBR exhaust, I just left it at the settings it came with. It is pre-determined to add a certain amount of fuel once I get above 2000 rpm (so basically all the time). If, by chance, it starts to run rich or lean, I can adjust it accordingly and then leave it alone.

I've heard with the juice box you can only add fuel not decrease. Is that true?

And I think I've decided to go with the Two Brothers slip on vs Yoshimura, this way would still be cheaper than going with a full system.

 

[99vengeur]

I've heard with the juice box you can only add fuel not decrease. Is that true?

And I think I've decided to go with the Two Brothers slip on vs Yoshimura, this way would still be cheaper than going with a full system.

That is not entirely true. If you were to use the setting that it comes with from the factory and it's too much fuel, yes you can decrease it. However, you can not decrease below the bike's stock setting, not that it would be a good idea anyway.

So in other words, you can add to the stock setting of the bike's fuel map, but you can't decrease the amount of fuel supplied by the stock fuel map. But I don't think our bikes run rich from the factory, so you wouldn't ever need to decrease the stock fuel input.

Plus, you can always turn the JB off at any time, without having to unplug or remove anything.

 

[MikeN02]

That is not entirely true. If you were to use the setting that it comes with from the factory and it's too much fuel, yes you can decrease it. However, you can not decrease below the bike's stock setting, not that it would be a good idea anyway.

So in other words, you can add to the stock setting of the bike's fuel map, but you can't decrease the amount of fuel supplied by the stock fuel map. But I don't think our bikes run rich from the factory, so you wouldn't ever need to decrease the stock fuel input.

Plus, you can always turn the JB off at any time, without having to unplug or remove anything.

Never thought of it that way before, so when they say that it's running too lean or rich that means there isn't enough fuel? You can use the juicebox to add more.

Why would I ever need to turn off the JB though?

 

[Diluted]

I'd say lean is too little and rich is too much...

 

[99vengeur]

Yes. When conditions are lean, there is not enough fuel (often the case after adding an exhaust or high-flow air filter) and when things are rich, there is too much fuel.

So, if you are running lean (not enough fuel) the JB can be used to add more to get to the "ideal" stoichiometric ratio of air to fuel at 14:1 (not that the numbers are actually important, just a fun tidbit of info). And if you start to run rich after installing the JB, all you have to do is back the setting down to add less fuel.

I can't really think of any real reason to turn the JB off, unless you need to pass vehicle inspections or emissions, but even then the aftermarket exhaust would likely fail you with or without the proper fuel added by the JB. Or, if you go back to the stock setup, you can just turn it off rather than uninstall it.

 

[MikeN02]

Yes. When conditions are lean, there is not enough fuel (often the case after adding an exhaust or high-flow air filter) and when things are rich, there is too much fuel.

So, if you are running lean (not enough fuel) the JB can be used to add more to get to the "ideal" stoichiometric ratio of air to fuel at 14:1 (not that the numbers are actually important, just a fun tidbit of info). And if you start to run rich after installing the JB, all you have to do is back the setting down to add less fuel.

I'm planning on adding the R6 headers, Slip-On exhaust and K&N Air Filter. I think I may be running lean still as I've read somewhere that they make the stock run lean for emissions or something.

Then again, Cavcuz05 said he was running too rich or lean in his R6 header thread. So if he's running too rich I can't use the Juicebox.

 

[JonKerr]

...the JB can be used to add more to get to the "ideal" stoichiometric ratio of air to fuel at 14:1 (not that the numbers are actually important, just a fun tidbit of info). ...

Show off! :spank: Using your big words nobody else knows. What are you, a science nerd or something? :rof:

 

[joloy133]

Stock bikes run lean from the factory as this does help with emissions. This was verified when I had my bike Dyno'ed and in talking to most bike mechanics, (even the dealerships techs will verify). What I would do is just start with mileage. At stock from factory I was getting 44-46 mpg. After full mod and Dyno for performance I went to 36 mpg. I talked to my tech and we found a profile that gave me an average of 40 mpg and the performance I wanted. With the dyno he was able to adjust the map by RPM range to get the performance/mpg settings. (My wrist activity level ultimately determines mpg, if you know what I mean.......)

 

[99vengeur]

Show off! :spank: Using your big words nobody else knows. What are you, a science nerd or something? :rof:

What if I am?!?! You gonna do something about it?! :Flip:

I admit, I haven't used that term in a few years, so it was kinda nice to revisit my college vocabulary.

 

[Uno979]

What if I am?!?! You gonna do something about it?! :Flip:

I admit, I haven't used that term in a few years, so it was kinda nice to revisit my college vocabulary.

I'm going to have to buy you a cookie before I come over. I think I still have my Buy 3 for a $1 Subway coupon.

:rof:

 

[Funkmaxtor]

I have a JB and TBR exhaust. I actually have a little bit of moisture coming out of the exhaust. Is this a sign that my settings are a little rich?