You can hear the difference in the idle of the engine, nice.
How to Sync Throttle Bodies on the FZ6R
- Thread starter Fastprof
- Start date
Nice catch, I was so busy adjusting and then grabbing the camcorder that I didn't even catch that (and I was there!)....
My bike is new again.... I was starting to get some weird takeoffs, it was like it was like the engine was bogging down if I took off with the rpms below 3k and when taking turns, it was really bad trying to maintain speed, and accelerate off the apex.....
My quick ride tonight was like riding a new bike. It was smoother, it was pulling harder, maybe not harder, but more linear out of turns... I just can't explain it... it didn't seem that much out of adjustment from the video, but it seems that was enough.
So, once again, kudos to Fastprof for the writeup!
I'm experiencing the intermittent bogging as well on takeoffs, it doesn't stall but it's not consistent. I'm getting ready to do this, I bought the mercury less SyncPro tuner, I think mine needs it, when it's just idling I can hear and see the rpms fluctuate instead of a steady (or close to it) rpm, like yours appears to be in the after. I'm probably going to do this on Monday or Tuesday when I can devote, if necessary a lot of time to it. Seems fairly easy, but you never know the first time you attempt something.Nice catch, I was so busy adjusting and then grabbing the camcorder that I didn't even catch that (and I was there!)....
My bike is new again.... I was starting to get some weird takeoffs, it was like it was like the engine was bogging down if I took off with the rpms below 3k and when taking turns, it was really bad trying to maintain speed, and accelerate off the apex.....
My quick ride tonight was like riding a new bike. It was smoother, it was pulling harder, maybe not harder, but more linear out of turns... I just can't explain it... it didn't seem that much out of adjustment from the video, but it seems that was enough.
So, once again, kudos to Fastprof for the writeup!
See, that is why I bought the Morgan Carbtune. NO mercury! It uses stainless steel "pushrods" or columns. This increases accuracy and prevents dangerous mercury spills.
99vengeur,
You made a pretty big claim there about accuracy. Do you have any facts or proof to back up your claim besides a statement from the Marketing division of Carbtune? I looked around and did not see the claims you posted.
#1, You have mechanical stainless steel pieces that go up and down like a piston in a cylinder. Friction and the angle of the Carbtune will come into play.
#2, The markers on the gauge look like they are about 1/4" apart while the markers on the mercury gauge are about 1" part allowing a finer degree of adjustment.
$3, the mercury is much heavier than stainless steel and therefore more responsive to the actual vacumn rather than other factors such as friction.
The Carbtune could be more accurate or not depending on a lot of factors, one of which is build quality and I doubt the unit is made to standards that would cause it to cost $500.00 to $1,000.00 per unit.
I am glad you like your unit tho..
It's true that I don't have any proof for improved accuracy, but mercury would be bound by the same issues you raised for the stainless steel. I guess I was surmising that since the stainless steel columns are a single piece rather than a liquid column, there would be a uniform effect on the steel as opposed to variability along the length of the mercury column. I imagine there would be different forces on the bottom of the column compared to the top of the column due to the expandability/compressibility of liquids.
I guess when I get the time to do my sync, I will try to get some video of the before and after like dart did. Then we can compare how precise the columns hold their values. :don'tknow:
I can't say anything about accuracy, I'd have to research and I doubt the NIST cares about our throttle bodies...
Mercury dangerous, yes... but at $50 shipped I'll take extra cautions, I believe you could probably use some heavy oil as well, as some of the homemade manometers suggest, then you could just take the bottle of mercury to a disposal facility.
I'd love to see some more video, or even a before / after pic from more bikes, I think someone else mentioned that one of their throttle bodies was way out (like mine) and that the other three were close. The adjustment screw is sensitive, I don't even think I had to turn them a quarter turn to get them inline.
And... Anyone in the N. VA area that wants to make use of my manometer, PM me and we can get together. Not sure what the shops charge, but it's easy to do at home, save your money for mods.
I use a mercury manometer. I have even made some of my own, custom for a 3 cylinder bike, and a few 4 cylinder bikes. Liquid manometers have one big advantage over any mechanical gauge. Liquid gauges are going to be more accurate. Unless there is a leak in the hose, they can't be wrong. While mercury is a heavy liquid, it responds slower then a lighter liquid, hence some folks have made manometers with water or oil. The lighter liquids require longer vertical columns since it will be easier for the engine vacuum to lift it. If you can tune a set of TB's to the accuracy one of these units can provide, it simply doesn't get much better then that. Having said that, I still use the mercury sticks, they are accurate enough, and easier to use then most. Loosing mercury hasn't been a problem.
Private or commercial? I have done a little bit of flying towards a private/recreational license. Wish I had more time and money to just finish the license.
I didn't mean to open a can of worms with that "accuracy" statement. It's just that the video of dart's sync made me think to times when I saw a non-liquid manometer in action. The columns just seemed to move less or be less "bouncy." Maybe I should have just stated that to begin with. But I'll still see what these steel columns do. :thumbup:
PPL, Cessna 172 G1000 and 152 so far.
This isn't a can of worms, it is a good discussion about synchronizing cylinders and the methods and equipment available. Great info from all who contributed so far. We can all learn from each other as there is no 100% correct gauge or method to doing this for everyone.
I kinda like the idea of less movement in the steel gauge but that "stability" belies the fact that it is less sensitive to the vacum and therefore appears more stable. I look for clyinders that look like they have a larger deflection than the others. The wider vacum measured may be the result of another factor.
I am not going to argue about the mercury and the danger it presents as I wish there was a safer alternative with the same qualities. In fact, I have added plastic tie wraps to my meter to make sure the rubber stays over the resevoir and I have a nice safe place that I keep it out of the way of danger of spilling. I also added a rubber strip to the bottom in case I smack it on the concrete while using it. One hard drop on the plastic resevoir tank on the bottom and it's spilled mercury all over the floor....NASTY!.... I have a hook that the gauge is hung from on the garage wall behind the drill press. It's fairly safe...about as safe as my oxy-acetylene tanks...LOL....
Lets delve further into the sync process though....shall we...
Since there is supposed to be a measurable vacum, what is the proper setting for the FZ6R. I did not find it in the shop manual. I always have used 24 inches as the sea level base. I adjusted my #1 cylinder up to the 24 line and then matched all the other cylinders to this. Since I am using mercury, the gauge should be accurate for the actual mercury level at altitude. I don't know where I got the 24 inch from but have used it for all my bikes since 1976 as I am about 180 feet above sea level. If the vacum is off on the #1 cylinder and you match the other 3, then all 4 are not set correctly to the altitude you are at.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Good discussion BTW and no ruffled feathers on my part.
Interesting points indeed! I don't know that I have ever come across an actual value for the vacuum across the throttle bodies for each cylinder.
I was always under the impression that as long as all were synchronized, then you would be good to go.Anyone else want to chime in?!
ETA: I just went back and looked at the pics in the how-to. The vacuum was set to 24 there as well. Could this be the magical number?
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Check out this page.
It shows some of the symptoms associated with the manifold vacum readings I mentioned.
It uses an analog gauge but the idea is the same. You need a sensitive gauge to do this though.
Intake Manifold Vacuum Tests
It shows some of the symptoms associated with the manifold vacum readings I mentioned.
It uses an analog gauge but the idea is the same. You need a sensitive gauge to do this though.
Intake Manifold Vacuum Tests
Also....some factoids....
MSL = Mean Sea Level and is equal to 77°F and ambient pressure of 29.24 inches of mercury
This is how to calibrate an altimeter if you don't have a tower with pressure information. Set the altimeter to the airport altitude and if you are at sea level and it is about 77F, the gauge will read 29.24.
24 inches of mercury is close to a perfect vacuum
MSL = Mean Sea Level and is equal to 77°F and ambient pressure of 29.24 inches of mercury
This is how to calibrate an altimeter if you don't have a tower with pressure information. Set the altimeter to the airport altitude and if you are at sea level and it is about 77F, the gauge will read 29.24.
24 inches of mercury is close to a perfect vacuum
Correction made, and my thanks to Butcher Bird and his sharp eye...don't know how I missed that one
Nice work on the entire write up, I'm getting ready to do mine right now!Correction made, and my thanks to Butcher Bird and his sharp eye...don't know how I missed that one
I just finished up mine and took it for a test ride, I can't tell yet if there is a difference but the TB's definitely weren't sync'd up. One strange thing I noticed was that my #1 throttle bodies vacuum was erratic compared to the others. Anyone else see this or think anything else is up?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMQOh0S-Jr4]YouTube - Throttle Body Sync.MOV[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMQOh0S-Jr4]YouTube - Throttle Body Sync.MOV[/ame]
What are the calibration marks on the unit?
awesome
what a awesome job you did explaining the steps to do this job man its really appreciated , do you have a idea how i can find this gage or how its called
marc from quebec
what a awesome job you did explaining the steps to do this job man its really appreciated , do you have a idea how i can find this gage or how its called
marc from quebec
Now let's look at the layout of the controls that we will use to sync the throttle bodies. Here is the adjusting block just behind the throttle bodies. Turning these screws will increase or decrease the vacuum of each throttle body
Yamaha has made it easy to attach your sync gauges by having these plugged lines already installed and ready to go. No chewed up knuckles doing this job.
Notice the line with the pink band on the left side is for number one cylinder and the same line with the band on the right side is for number four cylinder
Remove the plugs from the ends of these vacuum lines (don't lose them as they have to go back once we are done). Following your gauge's instructions connect the 1,2,3,4 lines to the same numbered lines going to the throttle bodies. The old brass adapters that came with my mercury gauges did not fit, so I found a few male to male adapters lying around my garage that worked nicely. If you do not have the proper fittings then you are going to have to run off to an auto parts store to see if they have the correct connectors.
Now that your sync gauges are connected, start the bike and let it idle. The gauge should now tell you where each cylinder is running in relation to the other cylinders. The idea is to use #1 cylinder as your reference and bring each of the other cylinders up or down to match.
In the above pic you can see that #2 and #4 are a bit too low, but #1 and #3 are in sync. Using a small flat screw driver adjust each throttle body to match the #1 cylinder.
After you have done this, gently give a couple of blips of the throttle (careful with mercury gauges as you will suck mercury into your engine if you are too vigorous with the throttle). You now may notice that the cylinders no longer match each other. Readjust again, and give a couple of blips on the throttle. You should only have to do this a few times and the gauge should show the throttle bodies are in sync. It is not necessary to have each cylinder perfectly matched, but close as you can without overheating your engine is your goal (now is a good time to check the temp. gauge on the bike).
Once you are satisfied that the throttle bodies are in sync, then turn off the bike, disconnect your sync gauge, and put the plugs back into each vacuum line from whence they came. Failure to put these plugs back in will result in a vacuum leak that will make your bike run like crap. Careful as you lower the tank back into position, make sure none of the lines are kinked or jammed up anywhere. Button down the tank with the hex bolts, and replace the side panels on either side of the tank. Careful again not to break off any of the tongues on the front of each panel. Note the unusual angle of the screws for these panels.
It took me a bit of turning and cursing before I found the right angle and the hex nut torqued down. Now simply put the quick connector in each front hole and then press down on the centre plunger to lock it in place. Now is a good time to pull down the drainage hoses on the right side of the bike and make sure they are running through the proper retainer. Also check to ensure they are not kinked.
Remount the seats, do a final check of your work. Start your engine, and
note how nicely your R is idling. Time to suit up and go for a ride. I hope this How To has been helpful.