Shifting/Engine Braking/Grinding??

[cbzdel]

So with this being my first street bike and a bike I plan on keeping until its paid off I have been trying to take care of it.. I shift everytime I hit about 3000rmp, I dont downshift/engine brake either. I clutch in, brake, downshift.. When I am coming to a stop I am usually in 6th gear and I clutch in and shift to neurtal and then brake.. I am somewhat against engine braking as I would rather buy pads/discs that a new engine/clutch/ect..

But I am noticing somewhat of a problem.. Whenever I am going to park, I usually am in 6th and then I clutch in brake to around 7-10mph and I shift to 1st and I get a grind almost every time if I shift straight from 6th to 1st (only done it 3-4 times out of the 6-7 times I have parked.. Whats the problem, what am I doning wrong..

Is it my riding style or is a problem with my bike?? Help me out guys im just a newbie hah

Also there is only 30 miles on the bike so maybe its just wearing in?? I just dont want to wear it in wrong..

 

[Red Wazp]

Whoa dude! Where do I start, your bike was made to ride- hard! I never shift under 5-6 k, always use the gears up and down. Brakes are a last resort for control.
Your style may get you run over. You need to be in the correct gear for the speed you are going so when some crazy in a car tries to run you over you will be able to use the bike to get out of the way. Use the clutch and gears the way they were intended to be used. Your style is doing more harm than good to your machine.
I highly recommend you take a MSF course to learn better street skills.

 

[fz6rwolf]

You are being way over cautious. I think shifting at 3k rpm all the time is too low, plus you're in the break-in period and need to have rpms go low and high to seal everything. Take that puppy to 9k+ once in awhile. It felt strange at 1st for me after coming from cruisers to have the high rpms but these bikes are made to run up high. Get yourself a long quiet road and from 1st all the way through the gears run them up high before shifting if your not comfortable doing it on whatever roads you're normally on. Bikes these days are tough and you want to break them in by pushing them a bit. As for engine breaking, you automatically do it just riding. Say you're going about 50 or so in 5th gear and traffic slows, you can't clutch it and stop and shift down to 1st and then go again, you shift down to the speed of the traffic and then if it speeds up you upshift, slows down you downshift. How you're going from 6th gear to parking it I have no idea? Are you going 60mph to your driveway?
I don't want to offend anyone but I find it kind of funny so many this being thier 1st bike are so worried about making this mod and that mod and haven't even gotten a feel for riding a motorcycle yet. Learn yours and your bikes capabilities before saying I need a fatter tire, or something for more hp or be loud or whatever. Yeah few mods I want to do because I know what I need for either more comfort or convenience, like bit bigger shield as I unfortunately do ride alot of highway, the gps hook-up just because I like to go to different semi-far places, hard bags because as well as looking better than soft are more watertight, 1" risers for bars because I know that will be just that much more comfortable. As far as a loud pipe at over 10% what the whole bike cost, no, don't need. Garage door opener, that would be way cool if I had a garage though LOL, now that's some original thinking.

 

[jwhelan]

You are going to get yourself killed!!!!! always keep your bike in a gear that will allow you to safely avoid an obstacle. The only time you should be in any other gear than 1st when coming to a stop is in emergency braking.

 

[fz6rwolf]

You are going to get yourself killed!!!!! always keep your bike in a gear that will allow you to safely avoid an obstacle. The only time you should be in any other gear than 1st when coming to a stop is in emergency braking.

what he said in alot less words than me LOL. Besides hurting yourself you're going to hurt your bike!!!

 

[ironman]

well, there have been some good responses to your question, but I will add this.

Do you honestly think that a bike that has 14000 RPM's as a redline is made to be ridden below 3000? ? ? Also, lets take a 170 lb man and add him to a 460 lb bike add in 20 lbs of gear and we are up to 650 lbs. Then we power that with a 100 hp motor (I know, it's not quite 100, but I'm going for simple round figures here). That's 1 hp/6.5 lbs. Now lets take a honda civic ex (pretty standard car found all over the world) with 2750 lbs of car and 170 lbs of driver and at least 30 lbs of gear and cargo and we are up to 2950 lbs. Then we put in the standard power plant of 140 hp and we have 1 hp/21.07 lbs. You probably wouldn't think twice about letting off the gas in the car with the tranny engaged, so why would you be so worried about doing it on a bike that has so much motor to weight that it barely knows you exist. Also, all numbers aside, this is a race-bread machine, the engine internals are made to take a flogging.

If I could give you three little tid-bits of advice
1. Think
2. Take an MSF course
3. Ride it like you stole it.

 

[Binks33]

burp it a little when down shifting,never be in 6th gear unless ur on the highway keep ur bike on tha ban u need to have the power in case u need get out of the way. its all good ur just a newbie we all were. the 1st gear click sound is normal no worries :thumbup:

 

[blaxx]

I would have to agree with the other posts here. I am also a new rider like you are cbzdel, so I'll share what I have learned so far.

As far as upshifting (1st to 2nd, etc) this little 600cc powerplant likes to be upshifted at 7k RPM's or so at least, and I have found myself pushing it up even further, not only because I love the sound of the engine screaming a little but because it just makes the upshifts easier. I, like you, was upshifting at low RPM's (in the 3k RPM range) for the first few miles, and I stress FEW, and I discovered the engine is not happy with that, it tended to lug along, and seemed to me it is probably not healthy for the engine in the long run, plus it isn't as much fun. Don't get me wrong, I am not ringing the engine out real hard (well, most of the time, lol), just move the upshifts up in the RPM range. Like others said, this is a tough engine, high RPM's aren't going to hurt, unless your redlining a bunch before the new engine break in piriod, like 600 miles IIRC.

For cruising around RPM's, 5K minimum, below that and it tends to be too far down in the powerband.

For downshifting, always keep the appropriate gear engaged for the speed at whitch you are at curently. I use engine braking, not only because it sounds cool , but because you can get up and go whenever you need to without having to hunt around for the correct gear, when a couple of seconds saved, can keep you out of trouble. Especially when making a turn, when you are not totally stopping, it is imparitive that you are in the correct gear, it's just one less thing to be messing with so you can concentrate on making the turn safely. Also, if you practice, and get used to the engine braking, it also really helps you keep track of which gear your in, so you don't have to install a device on your bike to tell you which gear your in. (I believe you brought this up in another thread, but I could be wrong) And as far as the clutch wearing prematurely is concerned, it is a wet clutch, cooled by the same oil used for the engine, so you will REALLY have to abuse it to cause any damage.

Have FUN, and don't overthink or complicate things more than need be. This is what I was doing, and after I took a chill pill, and used common sence, I had way more fun!

Geesh! I sound like a real know-it-all huh?

Good luck dude!

 

[SovietRobot]

Okay wow you have a lot to learn(NOT a bad thing, we've all been there, it comes with experience!)

Sure you want to be cautious during the break in period, by avoiding PROLONGED operation above 5-7,000rpm.

Shifting at 3k is a bad habit and it bound to get you or the bike hurt.

These engines and transmissions are made for high revving, high load use.

You should only be using 6th gear for cruising on the highway.

When downshifting, let out the clutch and engage EACH GEAR. Don't shift more than one gear at a time, and don't try to shift from 6 to 1st while you're coming to a stop.

You should be downshifting through the gears as you're slowing down, eventually coming in to 2nd gear, then right before you're about to stop, pull in the clutch, shift to first, and use the brakes to come to a stop.

The only time you should be shifting into neutral is when you're getting off the bike.

Like I said, this all comes with learning and experience. Good luck and be safe!

 

[cbzdel]

I guess I should of added more.. I am new to riding with a clutch, I have had some 50-250 scooters which are you know automatics.. so getting used to the clutchwork and power is kinda complicated.. I am taking the MSF class but not for another few weeks, I am getting used to the bike early.. (JUne 9th to June 12th)

And the reason I mentioned shifting at about 3000 RPM is because that is aprox what the owners manual says according to the shift points...

Also someone mentioned take it to 9k every once in awhile, my dealer told me not to take it over 6000rpm for the first 600 miles and it will mess up the rings... There is so much confiltcing info it makes it hard when you are starting out haha!

Someone asked how I went from 6th to park, the owners manual says 6th is like 35ish plus mph.. so thats how I do it.. driving down the steet at 35ish and then turning into my driveway lol...

Sorry for the newbie post, cars have always been my thing, I have just recently got into real bikes haha

But thanks for all the pointers everyone, now I think I have a better understanding of the bike for sure!! I really wanted to take the MSF class before I got the bike but I seen it and fell in love with it!

Thanks again guys!

 

[MNDZA]

You are being way over cautious. I think shifting at 3k rpm all the time is too low, plus you're in the break-in period and need to have rpms go low and high to seal everything. Take that puppy to 9k+ once in awhile. It felt strange at 1st for me after coming from cruisers to have the high rpms but these bikes are made to run up high. Get yourself a long quiet road and from 1st all the way through the gears run them up high before shifting if your not comfortable doing it on whatever roads you're normally on. Bikes these days are tough and you want to break them in by pushing them a bit. As for engine breaking, you automatically do it just riding. Say you're going about 50 or so in 5th gear and traffic slows, you can't clutch it and stop and shift down to 1st and then go again, you shift down to the speed of the traffic and then if it speeds up you upshift, slows down you downshift. How you're going from 6th gear to parking it I have no idea? Are you going 60mph to your driveway?
I don't want to offend anyone but I find it kind of funny so many this being thier 1st bike are so worried about making this mod and that mod and haven't even gotten a feel for riding a motorcycle yet. Learn yours and your bikes capabilities before saying I need a fatter tire, or something for more hp or be loud or whatever. Yeah few mods I want to do because I know what I need for either more comfort or convenience, like bit bigger shield as I unfortunately do ride alot of highway, the gps hook-up just because I like to go to different semi-far places, hard bags because as well as looking better than soft are more watertight, 1" risers for bars because I know that will be just that much more comfortable. As far as a loud pipe at over 10% what the whole bike cost, no, don't need. Garage door opener, that would be way cool if I had a garage though LOL, now that's some original thinking.

Your advice about the topic is good, but what do mods have to do with this topic? You say not to get an exhaust because it's not needed and not to worry about other mods, just riding. I love modding cars and now bikes since I got one and don't see anything wrong with it. Just because you like a bike stock doesn't mean you need to tell someone not to mod his bike. He never even mentioned these mods to begin with.

 

[Philippe1985]

I would shift during the brake in period between 4000 or 5000 rpm. Do as your dealer told you, don't get above 6000rpm. But try do ride in a way that your rpm's don't last for a long time the same. And about that engine braking thing, use it. If you keep a lot of distance, then you get a lot of time to use engine braking combined with your normal brakes. Just cruise like you have a lot of time and nothing will go wrong then. Don't panic, just get to know your bike. Do as you would get to know the special spots of a woman. Don't rush it, see what she likes and enjoy yourself while doing so.

 

[fz6rwolf]

I just find it kinda funny is all. I may someday change out the exhaust, I just find making useful mods 1st priority. I changed out the exhaust on my last bike, a vtx1300 and even took out the baffles to straight pipes and it looked and sounded great but that was AFTER I changed the seat (the stock was HORRIBLE unlike the stock on this one which I'm finding actually pretty comfy), put on a shield, added a passenger backrest for my lady, etc.
As for the owners manual recommendations on shift points, this bike no like shifting at 3k and I can't imagine being in 6th gear at 35mph. Only time I hit 6th is on the highway, even on back roads that you can easily go 50-60 with some curves I find 5th easier to control speed going into and out of curves than going from 6th into 5th, the engine doesn't seem to mind being in 5th at those speeds at all. I read one review of the bike where the reviewer said 6th is like an overdrive. No I've hardly hit redline but look where redline is and remember you can use it up close to it. Don't be afraid to use the whole powerband.

 

[cbzdel]

So what gear should I be in when going 35-40??

 

[champion221elite]

35-40 mph should be no higher than 3 rd gear.

It seems my FZ6 shifts smoother at higher Rpm's. Most of my shifts are in the 7,000-8,000 range for normal riding. You also need to keep your charging system in mind since it won't really charge the battery until you hit 5,000 rpms.

 

[dean owens]

So what gear should I be in when going 35-40??

well, while you're in the break in i wouldn't spend much (if any time) above the 6k mark. mine is past the break in period so keep that in mind. the other day i got up to 60mph before i shifted to 3rd gear and still had plenty of rpms to go.

on average i go a hear about every 10-15 mph i add. i came from the v-twin world and i'm still not used to the high revs myself. i'm sure my bike could handle more than i can throw at it.

don't take this the wrong way, but this is part of the reason why most people say that you shouldn't ride until you've taken the basic riders course. it would be easier to learn the proper way to ride to start with. you now have experience riding different than they will teach you. so not only will you have to learn from them... but you'll have to unlearn what you've already learned. not saying you can't, but it'll be more stuff going through your head.

stay safe out there.

 

[cbzdel]

don't take this the wrong way, but this is part of the reason why most people say that you shouldn't ride until you've taken the basic riders course. it would be easier to learn the proper way to ride to start with. you now have experience riding different than they will teach you. so not only will you have to learn from them... but you'll have to unlearn what you've already learned. not saying you can't, but it'll be more stuff going through your head.

That doesnt make much since to me.. Its like getting your drivers permit, driving around for a few weeks then taking drivers ed... In that case its not hard to re-learn things in drivers ed. I know how to ride a bike the only thing I am learning is shifting.. I have been riding CV transmission bikes for almost 10 years now, so the shifting is the only new part to me...

 

[jdough7]

I can't speak for the proper way to ride during the break in, but under normal conditions, everything the guys are saying above is correct.

I figured you had no prior experience with manual transmissions, but you already have some third person experience. Think of how many time's you've been traveling down a steep hill on the highway (car/bike doesn't matter) and a big semi is riding next to you. You've heard their engine speed increase (get louder) eventhough they aren't accelerating. They're using the naturally higher drag of the lower gears of the engine to aid in slowing the truck. Truckers have got so much weight an momentum behind them that if they tried to use brakes alone they would lock up or burn out in no time. Then you've got 30,000 lb of metal hurtling down a hill at 65mph and rising!!! Truckers use engine braking to avoid this.

Point is engine braking is normal whether you're driving a semi, a car, or bike. The vehicles are designed for this and you won't hurt the engine. Maybe you could if you were exceeding redline everytime you down shifted, but I'm sure you've got the good sense not to do that.

Futhermore, you always want to be ready to escape a dangerous scenario at any moment on a bike. You can't do this if you are in too high a gear for your speed.

You should be able to roll on the throttle from a steady cruise and accelerate enough to escape a cage (car or truck) that doesn't see you. If you suddenly roll on the gas and the bike hesitates or sucks air, you're in too high a gear.

If you don't like the sudden change in engine speed (a little jerky), you can engage the clutch, rev the engine (just a little bit!) while you down shift, then release the clutch. This will mitigate the sudden change in gear speed and should smooth out your ride if you do it right. Try learning what RPM corresponds to your speed of travel for a given gear. I know sounds complicated but as you learn your bike you'll probably find yourself shifting thru the gears at the same speeds (6-5 at 50, 5-4 at 40; as a generic example). And as you get more comfortable with the throttle response, you'll become better at revving the engine to just the right RPM for the down shift. Just takes practice, start at slow speeds/gears, although I wouldn't try this till after your MSF course.

Don't worry about being a newbie. You're pursuing answers to a question by asking those who have come before, which puts you leaps and bounds ahead of the other 0mile guys who don't know any better.

Be patient, I know that brand new bike is calling your name every moment, but you're going to learn a lot in the safety course, and have fun too, which will make riding you're new horse a lot easier.

Ride safe,
Jay

 

[cbzdel]

I have to say thanks for all the pointers guys.. riding this bike according to the owners manual is hard haha!! I was shifting out of first at 10mph, I wouldnt even have the clutch let out all the way haha...

But I took all your acviced and quit making it a game to get into 6th as fast as possible, yet only tracing at 35ish... I started stifting gears between 4000-5500rmp depending on what was in front of me and how fast I need to go, which worked great and I was able to feel the power alot better, I can only imagine when I am able to break though the 6000rmp barrier haha!

I am getting more comfortable with the engine braking as well, its hard to engine brake when I was in 6th at 35, but when I am in 3rd. just drop it into second until I reach about 8-10 then I would just drop it into N and stop..

Thanks again everyone!!

Side note, a co-worker was very impressed by my FZ6R he went to go look for a new 09 FZ6 but it seems like they are not selling them anymore, so he picked up a brand new 07' FZ1 (had 12 miles on it) that was marked down to $7500, not sure how the dealer held onto it for so long haha! HE has been riding dirt bikes and dual sport bikes for the past 20 years so he is comfortable with the power, personally I see no need for it yet...

 

[dean owens]

you'll absolutely love this bike when you can go over 6k.

on a side note, you should make it a habit to stop in 1st. i sometimes stop in neutral... but it's not a good habit. reason being... let's say you've just stopped... you look in your mirror and someone is coming up on you a little too fast. they either don't see you, or they've misjudged, or their brakes went out. if you're in first you just get out of their way. if you're in neutral you have to first shift to first and then get out of their way. and always give yourself a way out. don't stop just behind a car. give a little length and look to see where you could go if such a thing were to happen.

continued success with the bike.