New Rider - I 2nd guess everything

[Fzara2000]

I rode for the first time today on the roads. I felt really good, but is there a reason I'm so jerky with the throttle in 2nd/3rd gear etc.? I guess I'll roll on the throttle and get off, then roll on again when im riding, and feel the jerkiness. Should i just learn to be smoother and not give it so much gas, or is this normal?

Also, when approaching a red light..I typically downshift and experience alot of engine braking. I've heard you should clutch in and hold it in while downshifting. Is this what you guys do?

 

[Diluted]

Also, when approaching a red light..I typically downshift and experience alot of engine braking. I've heard you should clutch in and hold it in while downshifting. Is this what you guys do?

Yep, I just hold the clutch and cycle down through the gears.

 

[creggur]

I rode for the first time today on the roads. I felt really good, but is there a reason I'm so jerky with the throttle in 2nd/3rd gear etc.? I guess I'll roll on the throttle and get off, then roll on again when im riding, and feel the jerkiness. Should i just learn to be smoother and not give it so much gas, or is this normal?

Yes... Try to be as smooth as possible anytime you're using the throttle - rolling on or off - you'll notice as you get higher in the rev-range the touchier the throttle will be. No need to use the higher rev-range for typical day-to-day riding, especially when you're just starting out.

Smooth takes practice, so don't get discouraged if you're a little jerky at first. Racers spend their entire career working on 'Smooth' - it'll come with practice.

Also, when approaching a red light..I typically downshift and experience alot of engine braking. I've heard you should clutch in and hold it in while downshifting. Is this what you guys do?

I typically release the clutch after each downshift for a few reasons:
1) Engine braking - hurts nothing and helps you slow down
2) No need to count downshifts to know what gear you're in at what speed
3) You're always in the right gear if you need to suddenly GO for some reason
4) You'll get a better feel for when to downshift under different circumstances as you gain experience and your riding gets more aggressive.

I typically don't release the clutch after downshifting to first - but you'll usually know you've shifted to first because there is a distinctive 'clunk' that feels different than the other gears when you're downshifting.

Another point: when downshifting in the higher rev-range to avoid over-tourqing and causing the rear wheel to lock up as the wheel catches up with the engine you need to match the revs. This is a bit tricky, and as long as you keep your downshifts in the lower rev-range nothing to worry about at this point.

Practice, practice, practice is the key...

 

[ForZa6er]

If anything if someone hasnt mentioned it before take the MSF courses, money best spent and they teach you what you need to know

 

[Fzara2000]

If anything if someone hasnt mentioned it before take the MSF courses, money best spent and they teach you what you need to know

Yea I took the class earlier this month and they told me to clutch in as I approach a stop and downshift when I'm at a standstill. I guess I started to second guess myself as I started reading alot more online. They said to engine brake as I need to slow down.

Last thing - I'm a 5' 4" and about 180lbs male with short legs. I got the seat shaven and they put in smaller foam pieces but it didn't help much and I'm a little more than tippy toes on each side of the bike.probably balls of my feet on one side and the other barely balls but definitely toes.

This isn't a problem at all, I lean on either side and can balance, turn, manuever etc. fine, but when coming to a full "oh shit"' stop during practicing in a parking lot, the bike falls down on either side really fast and it's hard to catch the bike, which is making me very nervous. Does this mean I need to lower the bike even more with a suspension kit?

I really love the bike though!

 

[Superzoom]

I would say you should definitely lower the bike. Our bike has a fairly generous suspension travel of 5" front and back. Lowering the bike an inch would really help you when you come to stop and put your feet down. There are many Harleys that literally have an inch or two of suspension travel. Of course, their ride is brutal, but everything is a compromise. To avoid falling at stops, I'd say lowering is definitely worth it.

 

[creggur]

Yea I took the class earlier this month and they told me to clutch in as I approach a stop and downshift when I'm at a standstill. I guess I started to second guess myself as I started reading alot more online. They said to engine brake as I need to slow down.

Last thing - I'm a 5' 4" and about 180lbs male with short legs. I got the seat shaven and they put in smaller foam pieces but it didn't help much and I'm a little more than tippy toes on each side of the bike.probably balls of my feet on one side and the other barely balls but definitely toes.

This isn't a problem at all, I lean on either side and can balance, turn, manuever etc. fine, but when coming to a full "oh shit"' stop during practicing in a parking lot, the bike falls down on either side really fast and it's hard to catch the bike, which is making me very nervous. Does this mean I need to lower the bike even more with a suspension kit?

I really love the bike though!

Make sure when you're doing an "oh shit" stop to keep the front wheel as straight as possible - this will help avoid an "oh shit" dive to either side when the bike stops.

I lowered my wife's bike (5'1" and 105lbs) and it's the best modification investment we've made. The bike is way more manageable for her now, and has boosted her confidence immeasurably. Money well spent.

 

[ME_with_a_B]

:cheer: Congrats on the bike behindXgrnXeyes!! :cheer:

One thing I've had to remind myself on several different occassions when "emergency stopping" (ie, the light turns yellow, thought I was going to pass through the intersection, but the stupid cage in front of me stopped short) -- use the front brake and apply quite a bit of force *and use the rear brake VERY sparingly* - this will keep that back tire from locking up.

I've skidded several times because of locking up the rear tire. It can be really scary especially if you aren't moving in a straight line. And the lane markers on the roads (tape) around here get VERY slippery and don't allow your tires to grab the pavement if you end up skidding onto one... I've had a few hairy experiences with that too.

I'm in the habit now of using quite a bit of force on the front brake (which is how its supposed to be done anyway as while the weight of the bike is transferring to the front during a stop -- the front brake is responsible for most of your stop) -- and since now I am not so "shy" about squeezing that lever outright, I haven't skidded in quite a while.

If you do lock up the rear tire... I think you're supposed to just "ride it out". Because if you try to reengage that tire, you could high-side, and that would be bad. *somebody correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% on this

Best of luck as you continue learning to ride and make sure you're having fun!!

 

[creggur]

:cheer: Congrats on the bike behindXgrnXeyes!! :cheer:

If you do lock up the rear tire... I think you're supposed to just "ride it out". Because if you try to reengage that tire, you could high-side, and that would be bad. *somebody correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% on this

Best of luck as you continue learning to ride and make sure you're having fun!!

You actually are 100% on that!:thumbup:

 

[Fenixgoon]

Two things I'd like to mention...

First off, it might be a little dangerous for a beginner to be high in the rev range while accelerating out of a turn. It's so easy to lose traction while doing so. As a beginner, it's probably a good idea to stay a gear higher than one that gives optimal power in order to keep the torque from spinning the back wheel. The FZ6R has decent low-end torque, so you can make turns in pretty high gears.

Secondly, you should begin to learn how to match your throttle with engine speed as you downshift. That just takes practice. Practice it during straight line stops and do it gradually until becomes natural. Once you can do that, the next step is to learn to blip the throttle to downshift quickly and smoothly. Blipping the throttle is the fastest and smoothest way to downshift, and would help in your traffic light turn scenario and in sport riding through curves.

Blipping the throttle is hard to explain. Try to see if you can find some video of how to do it on YouTube. I think I saw how in a video by Keith Code.

a quick question about rev-matching. when i downshift, i usually give a little extra throttle to smooth things out, but i wouldn't say that i perfectly match the revs on the downshift by any means. i definitely let the clutch out slowly enough to avoid locking the rear though.

how good/bad is what i do, and how precise are pros when they rev-match?

 

[Detrich]

As I recall, MSF teaches us to develop the habit of applying front & rear brakes simultaneously & evenly... Over or under applying one or the other can yield undesirable results- especially in varying riding conditions, such as wet weather or sharp turns...

Also, remember to squeeze the bike with your thighs, relax your arms while riding, and try not to hold onto the bike with your arms. You should be holding on with your legs and feet. Being "one" with the bike improves stability and maneuverability. (This is something I'm working on a lot too. I just ordered some tank grips to help with this, in fact.)

Remember to stay loose, stay relaxed, and be able to lift your butt off the seat at any moment when going over bumps etc.

 

[creggur]

a quick question about rev-matching. when i downshift, i usually give a little extra throttle to smooth things out, but i wouldn't say that i perfectly match the revs on the downshift by any means. i definitely let the clutch out slowly enough to avoid locking the rear though.

how good/bad is what i do, and how precise are pros when they rev-match?

The pros are dead-on accurate when they do it, of course, that's what they do for a living so.... They also have slipper clutches now that really negates the need for perfection, but I'd bet they can still do it, dead-on, every time. Having said that...

It's good to learn the proper technique, and it is a bit complicated and takes a lot of practice to get it right - especially at higher revs.

Here's how it goes, step by step:
1) Place foot on gear lever, and preload your downshift with a bit of pressure
2) Simultaneously 'stab' the clutch (with the shifter pre-loaded it will fall into the lower gear) and blip the throttle.

By 'stab' the clutch I mean you just flick it in an inch or so with your left hand. No need to pull it all the way to grip - a little flick is all you need. The clutch stab and throttle blip should be on fluid motion. It happens really fast and this is why it takes so much practice to get the timing precise. You also need to get a feel for how much throttle blip you need at different RPMs.

It takes practice, so use a parking lot or quiet road to practice on. Don't get discouraged, it takes a while to get this right, but when you do your downshifts will be way smoother. It's worth the effort.

I would recommend you learn to upshift with the clutch stab/throttle off first to get a feel for just how little clutch and throttle input is required to shift gears. To do this you simply:
1) Slide your toe under the shifter and apply a bit of up pressure to pre-load your upshift
2) simultaneously 'stab' the clutch and go from 50% throttle to 25% throttle back to 50% throttle.

The bike will smoothly snick into the next higher gear. When you are doing this at Wide Open Throttle there is no need to use the clutch at all. Just pre-load your shifter and rotate the throttle from 100% - 75% - 100% and it will smoothly snick into the next higher gear with little or no loss in acceleration. Don't do this until you are fluid with the regular riding motion as things are happening much faster at WOT and can cause small wheelies or minor traction loss at the rear tire if you get the timing wrong. Nothing to be afraid of, but you do need to be aware that it can happen...

Again: Practice, Practice, Practice...

 

[Marthy]

Here's a picture of a dog ring from a Hewland race car gearbox. Motorcycle dog ring are very similar. This is the part that move when you shift. The gear side has the same pattern, so when you engage a gear those two goes together and... it goes. What you're doing when you blip on downshift or just close the throttle on upshift is disengaging those. If you look carefully you can see there's a positive angle, usually about 7 degree to keep the gear engage.

So exactly like Mr' Creggur says, all you need to do is apply a bit of pressure on the shifter and all together downshift, stab the clutch and blip. Just to get the motion and make it a bit easier on you. Don't use the front brake yet, just let your 2 finger rest on top of the brake lever and blip with your wrist. (slow down with the rear brake for now, as you get the motion add the front brake)