What should a father do?

[BoneJj]

Sounds like 0 years of driving experience, considering his parents have to buy him a car.

he's 19, why the heck isn't he able to live under his own roof and buy his own bike/car?

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Earlier it was stated that he's in college and has a part time job, so obviously he's working on having a better end career than most people do.

I wouldn't want my child having to work full time either when in college. My future child will need to be able to concentrate fully on his school work. I think what he's doing is to be commended, not many people make it a point to put school first.

 

[Scott_Thomas]

Earlier it was stated that he's in college and has a part time job, so obviously he's working on having a better end career than most people do.

I wouldn't want my child having to work full time either when in college. My future child will need to be able to concentrate fully on his school work. I think what he's doing is to be commended, not many people make it a point to put school first.

My wife and I work fulltime and then some, take care of the house and property (3 acres), and go to school fulltime. Oldest daughter (20) is taking online classes for graphic design, youngest (18) is going to start school (at a university) in August for elementary teaching and special education. My son is only 9. I get what you're saying, but our children had to get federal student loans same as we did for ours. My youngest's schedule for classes is weird so fulltime employment would be difficult, but my oldest does online as do we so fulltime employment is possible. They have zero responsibility at home so work and school would be their only responsibilities. Honestly I wouldn't force my children to work fulltime, but anytime I hear them say it can't be done I say look at what your Mom and I do everyday. It's hard but not impossible.

 

[Brock Kickass]

I've been skimming the several pages of preceding posts, so forgive me if I repeat...

I couple of points I'd throw in to give my .02, A) Let the kid have a bike. He's obviously interested and will end up getting one somehow. At least if he starts while he's at home he's close and you are the primary influence on him. Without even pushing the issue, he will tend to accept your approach to riding as proper and be safer than if he learns with a bunch of stunting punks. It's also something you guys will do together. My boy is 2 months yesterday and I can't wait for when I get to buy an old bike for us to fix up together and for him to learn on. I don't wish his life away but at the same time we might have to buy a total wreck so that we can start working in it on his 9th birthday!

B) There is a very fine line between helping our kids and spoiling them. We are naturally inclined to do anything to make it easier for our kids, sometimes to ours and their peril. You're certainly not denying your son anything by making him earn the opportunity to ride. It's only when he earns it and is denied anyway that isn't fair. Now that he has a car and basic transportation is covered, he can learn about how transportation is a necessity, but bikes are a luxury, albeit a bit more of a practical one than a boat or a Rolex.

C) As much as I hate to admit it, you really do need your wife on board. You said "what if something happens?" when you should have said "what happens when something happens?" Just like dressing for the crash instead of the ride, if everyone involved isn't prepared to face the real risks of motorcycling there's no point in starting. My wife thinks a lot more with her heart than I do, and it can make me crazy. She has fears that my logical brain finds to be completely irrational. Still, though, she gets nervous and I learned a long time ago that discrediting her fears because they're not logical only makes her suffer, because the fear is there whether I give it merit or not. Just because I tell her not to worry won't stop her from pacing the floor while I'm riding, so I had to show her that I am as safe as can e when I ride. I also had to adopt some safer motorcycling policies, which wasn't a bad thing. Explain to your wife why it is smarter for him to learn to ride now with you than otherwise.

As I said, apologies if I repeated. I though my insight might help. If it doesn't just file it in the circular.

 

[BoneJj]

My wife and I work fulltime and then some, take care of the house and property (3 acres), and go to school fulltime. Oldest daughter (20) is taking online classes for graphic design, youngest (18) is going to start school (at a university) in August for elementary teaching and special education. My son is only 9. I get what you're saying, but our children had to get federal student loans same as we did for ours. My youngest's schedule for classes is weird so fulltime employment would be difficult, but my oldest does online as do we so fulltime employment is possible. They have zero responsibility at home so work and school would be their only responsibilities. Honestly I wouldn't force my children to work fulltime, but anytime I hear them say it can't be done I say look at what your Mom and I do everyday. It's hard but not impossible.

I don't disagree that's it's not doable but I would not want to have that level of stress. Especially if someone is as nuts as I am and taking classes like Calculus I-II, Chem I-III and the labs to go with, Physics I-II and several others that are quite nuts....

 

[Scott_Thomas]

I don't disagree that's it's not doable but I would not want to have that level of stress. Especially if someone is as nuts as I am and taking classes like Calculus I-II, Chem I-III and the labs to go with, Physics I-II and several others that are quite nuts....

I agree it can be difficult, trust me I know, but not impossible or improbable. I think with my daughter going to the University it will be nearly impossible because he class schedule won't really allow it, but online school is flexible. There are times I wish I didn't have fatherly duties, husband duties, household duties, work, etc, but like everything else we adapt. I know you are prior military and adaptation is our middle name. I honestly don't think it teaches children any responsibility to pay their way 100% so that they have 0 responsibility while they go to school. Both my daughters worked in high school (youngest had a 4.07 weighted GPA).

 

[BoneJj]

I agree it can be difficult, trust me I know, but not impossible or improbable. I think with my daughter going to the University it will be nearly impossible because he class schedule won't really allow it, but online school is flexible. There are times I wish I didn't have fatherly duties, husband duties, household duties, work, etc, but like everything else we adapt. I know you are prior military and adaptation is our middle name. I honestly don't think it teaches children any responsibility to pay their way 100% so that they have 0 responsibility while they go to school. Both my daughters worked in high school (youngest had a 4.07 weighted GPA).

Yes, I did my thing in the military. It was crazy having to adapt to everything that I was doing, it was a daily ordeal, "Adapt and overcome".

That's pretty cool that your daughter has been doing that. There are some kids that I work with on a regular basis for other classes that also tutor other students as much as 20-30 hours a week, they are supposed to only do 20 but some go much more and help out a lot. I've actually started to do that as well. Helping some of the people that are afraid of math to get more comfortable with it.

I agree, having to pay your way 100% is not the best thing to do, but working some and going to school can be a good thing, if you have the time to you might as well get a little extra money to put in your pocket to pay those bills or make taking out loans a little less often or not as needed as much.

I've been working on setting up a plan for my niece and nephew to get some funds from me for when or if they decide to go to college. I know that way they will at least have a better shot if I can help them out as well.

If I have my own kids any year soon I will also need to start up a fund for them as well.

Okay, I went off what I was going to say... nothing knew....

As for house hold duties and all that, yes, those still need to be attended to. The woman, well, I could say a few jokes but I probably shouldn't.

Online school is good but I don't like that much myself. I've done a few classes online and it's just not for me. Well, it would probably be okay for some of the easier classes but right now I'm doing an online physics class and it's a SOB! In a couple weeks I start up with Calc2. I was nuts enough to take that as a mini summer session.

 

[Scott_Thomas]

Yes, I did my thing in the military. It was crazy having to adapt to everything that I was doing, it was a daily ordeal, "Adapt and overcome".

That's pretty cool that your daughter has been doing that. There are some kids that I work with on a regular basis for other classes that also tutor other students as much as 20-30 hours a week, they are supposed to only do 20 but some go much more and help out a lot. I've actually started to do that as well. Helping some of the people that are afraid of math to get more comfortable with it.

I agree, having to pay your way 100% is not the best thing to do, but working some and going to school can be a good thing, if you have the time to you might as well get a little extra money to put in your pocket to pay those bills or make taking out loans a little less often or not as needed as much.

I've been working on setting up a plan for my niece and nephew to get some funds from me for when or if they decide to go to college. I know that way they will at least have a better shot if I can help them out as well.

If I have my own kids any year soon I will also need to start up a fund for them as well.

Okay, I went off what I was going to say... nothing knew....

As for house hold duties and all that, yes, those still need to be attended to. The woman, well, I could say a few jokes but I probably shouldn't.

Online school is good but I don't like that much myself. I've done a few classes online and it's just not for me. Well, it would probably be okay for some of the easier classes but right now I'm doing an online physics class and it's a SOB! In a couple weeks I start up with Calc2. I was nuts enough to take that as a mini summer session.

Online school is quite difficult because it definitely takes more discipline. You have to motivate yourself. My oldest daughter just found that out (she just finished her 1st semester). I would prefer the classroom myself, but with work and family would be nearly impossible now. Maybe once I finish my Bachelor's degree and get an IT job that helps pay for education I will go to classes for my Master's. Your workload sounds like a beast. Math classes are IMO way harder online and I wish like hell I could do those in a classroom. Online you pretty much have to teach or reteach yourself.

 

[BoneJj]

Online school is quite difficult because it definitely takes more discipline. You have to motivate yourself. My oldest daughter just found that out (she just finished her 1st semester). I would prefer the classroom myself, but with work and family would be nearly impossible now. Maybe once I finish my Bachelor's degree and get an IT job that helps pay for education I will go to classes for my Master's. Your workload sounds like a beast. Math classes are IMO way harder online and I wish like hell I could do those in a classroom. Online you pretty much have to teach or reteach yourself.

:LOL: I'm a gluten for punishment it seems. Hell, I signed that damn contract when I went active duty, that should say that I'm a bit nuts as it is...

I agree, higher math classes are extremely difficult online. I don't think I'll make this mistake again. I did okay the first couple tests without too much effort on this one but the last few have been a SOB and took a serious amount of work to get a good grade on. Probably wouldn't be nearly as bad with class time.

The teaching yourself part isn't that bad it's the complete understanding that is the issue. I don't like blind memorization, I like the full explanations.

Call me a little on the OCD side of things with this stuff.

 

[FastFreddy]

You need experience in a car for a few years before even thinking about a bike.
The riding is the easy part, its reading the traffic patterns that takes more experience in a car first. All the times people in cars do crazy shit and dart out on you and change lanes from a standstill, you want to have those experiences in a car first, so you know how to avoid those situations on the bike in the future.

 

[Bert-Aus]

....It's hard but not impossible.

I returned to studies at the age of 27 with my eldest son turning 1 in my first year.
I never finished high school, pursued a life in skateboarding, which led me to discover design work. I spent 5 years studying full time whilst working when I could and having a further two children in the process.

After 5 years of study, Bachelor in Design (Architectural/ Landscape Arch Majors), Masters in Landscape Arch. and 3 children; all whilst scrimping through life paying a mortgage and supporting my wife.

Yep it was definately tough but I would highly reccomend the experience.
I changed my outlook on life, my families longterm situation and earnt soo much time with my kids whilst they were groms -money doesnt buy that time at all.

So if you have the interest to do better for yourself and your family, dont give up, work towards that goal each and every day, hour, minute to make it happen! Like BoneJj said "Adapt and overcome".

 

[aki]

my 2 cents

I voted no... "for now"... and here's why...

1) Your son is 19. Responsible or not, I'm speaking from my experiences. My friends and I thought we were mature, responsible, and knew what we were doing at 19. Looking back now, I don't think we truly made great decisions... shoots, I still question myself, but again, your son may be super responsible. You're to judge of that as his dad.

2) To what it seems like, your son has 0 years of riding experience. MSF is a definite must, but that still leaves him with about 16 hours of riding experience, none on the street. Not saying he wont get it, but this leads into my #3... My recommendation, start him out on dirt so he learns the ins and outs of the bike in a somewhat controlled environment.

3) Location. I'm guessing you guys are located somewhere in southern CA? Nothing against Socal, I grew up there. I personally don't think it's the greatest place to ride with all the traffic and business. Less careless, angry drivers the better.

4) Your wife. Going against your wife = dog house. And if anything happened to your son, you will never be forgiven. Keep that in mind.

Conclusion: I would take your son and teach him how to ride first (maybe even the wife), get him experience, take the MSF, and get your wife convinced before you purchase a bike and decide it's okay for him to ride street. At 19, if he really wanted a bike, he'd probably end up getting one on his own anyways... and if he does, you can make sure he has enough experience without getting the full blame from the wife. The last part is taking the role of the worried parents, but trusts their son and hope he stays safe from the environment. Again this was my opinion on the situation, hope this helps.

 

[tbow388]

My thought

Well I just went through the same thing. I traded my cruiser for a FZ6R and my son (19) said he wanted to get one. After many talks with him and flat out saying "I don't want a dead son" he still decided to go ahead.

He did ask me to help him find one, He was looking at super sports and I said no!!! He told me that he would listen to me on this because I have been riding since 1988 (1st bike 88fz600) and have been lucky enough not to lay one down.

I found him a 06 FZ6 with only 1500 miles on it. He purchased it with his own money and had to prepay his insurance. He has been on dirt bikes since he was very young and had ridden my cruiser quite a few times. He has been driving with no tickets or accidents for 4 years with a car that is highly modified. He does ask a lot of questions and has agreed to sit and listen to my riding safe talks.

Only you know your kid and whether he can handle the responsibility of a bike or not.

 

[ajones70]

Imo

Anything can happen at any time..he doesnt have to be riding a bike for something to happen. My husband was training for an Ironman and was out on a training ride on his race cycle and was hit by a car, Oct last year. He is lucky to be alive with what happened and his injuries. He started cycling again as part of his rehab and will start training for events again soon.
I rear ended someone in my car 4 months ago but I still drive my car.
My husband bought the Fazor8 for commuting 2months ago,and we paid for half a cbr125 for our 17yr old son a month ago. I bought my FZ6R and brought it home yesterday. We couldnt exactly say no to him seeing as we have bikes! Both our son and I are doing our bike course this upcoming weekend. He actually has alot of road awareness and is a better biker than driving in the car!
All we can do is help them, guide, teach and ensure they have all they need to be safe. Ultimately if they want a bike they will get one anyway.
What doesnt kill us makes us stronger! Lifes too short.

 

[alishas]

"Alisha's Husband"

Sorry to get off topic, as a Ninja 250 seems to be a popular bike to talk about. The thing nobody has mentions is the entry level Honda sport bikes. If you are able to find a CBR250 or 500 as an entry level would be much better. I say this, because from what I understand these two are fuel injected vs the 250 Ninja's carbs. I don't even mention the Ninja 300 as that is so new and I out of curiousity asked the Kawi dealer and they said they're sold out everywhere.

I have a nephew (17) that wants a bike, but he hasn't even learned to drive yet. Now, we have done longboarding down steep hills, and dirt jumping on bicycles, so we like risky sports.

I graduated to a motorcycle this Christmas, so that only increased his enthusiasm to have one. But, I refuse to take part in getting him onto a bike, guess who would get blamed if he crashed?

However, if he were my son, I might have more control over the situation and could see a possible method of training him safely.

1) Ninja 250
2) No commuting, only weekend rides for first 5000 miles
3) You keep the bike in your possession
4) Ride with him and evaluate, demonstrate by example, discuss how riding can be fun without going triple digit and taking big risks
5) Helmet - always helmet
6) Wife, she would have to agree to the method, but I would simply state your case and not push it, it would have to be something she agreed to on her own.

Riding motorcycles is unbelievably fun (duh), kids want to be cool and do fun stuff (duh), I think once your head is on straight about safe riding and not being impulsive or reckless then riding can be somewhat safe.

The other route would be to simply say 'No', and say 'we are against it, and we cannot endorse something that might get you killed' - this may shed you of your guilt in case of an accident, but you may lose your opportunity to assist him in the training.

It's not an easy call, many parents have suffered with lost children, but the key is gear and training to reduce the risks - oh yeah, and did I say it is really, really fun.

 

[anticsd]

It depends on the rider. If he or she respects the throttle control and follow the laws of the road in the state. If you notice when they drive they tend to floor it and weave in and out the lanes then your answer is clear. If they're calm and level headed people and realize a bike is dangerous if not careful that shows maturity in which it should be a yes