Gutting my cat

[Marthy]

One more thing... (it kind of hit me this morning) This bike is equipped with a heat exchanger. (mean the water warm up / cool down the oil) So running the bike too cold will bring the oil temps too cold too. Big NO NO! If the water is around 200F, that mean the oil should be around 220F. This is right on target! It might go up a bit when you're at a stop light but it's ok, no big deal.

Here's the info about the gold stuff.

hrpworld.com
Gold Heat Reflective Racing Film
.0065 thick
Comes in 24" wide roll and it cost $29.99/ft

That stuff is expensive, but this is the best stuff money can buy. And light wieght. :surrender:

 

[owldaddy]

I thought it would be helpful to list the sensors that the ECU uses to adjust the fuel/air mix. I understand that the European version has an O2 sensor, the US version does not.
Intake air temp.
Intake air pressure
Throttle position
Coolant temp
Speed sensor? (not sure if this one works with the mixture)

This is a very simple system. I doubt it has the capability to make even small adjustments caused by modifying the intake or exhaust system. Plan on buying a fuel nanny if any mods are made to these systems.

Marthy makes a good point when suggesting the air coming off the radiator may have an effect on the air sucked into the air-box. A cold air induction system may be useful. Since we don't have massive intake manifolds, heat soak shouldn't be an issue. The intake is short and made mostly of plastic, which does not transfer heat effectively. The cooler the intake air, the better for power.

 

[jcbrown630]

I thought it would be helpful to list the sensors that the ECU uses to adjust the fuel/air mix. I understand that the European version has an O2 sensor, the US version does not.
Intake air temp.
Intake air pressure
Throttle position
Coolant temp
Speed sensor? (not sure if this one works with the mixture)

This is a very simple system. I doubt it has the capability to make even small adjustments caused by modifying the intake or exhaust system. Plan on buying a fuel nanny if any mods are made to these systems.

Marthy makes a good point when suggesting the air coming off the radiator may have an effect on the air sucked into the air-box. A cold air induction system may be useful. Since we don't have massive intake manifolds, heat soak shouldn't be an issue. The intake is short and made mostly of plastic, which does not transfer heat effectively. The cooler the intake air, the better for power.

How bout ignition advance? That's as big a factor in making power as mixture is, as well.

EDIT : This thread is WAYYY off track LOL. I was only trying to cool the bike for my comfort. not necessarily to make more power. Which i did acheive my goal of ridding myself of the higher tempertures.

 

[owldaddy]

While ignition advance is important, it isn't sensed by the ECU. It is adjusted by the ECU depending on the other sensors.

 

[Marthy]

It is with a heavy heart that i concede defeat for the time being. I made GREAT progress on hollowing out the cat, but ran out of time and patience. For now she has a straight pipe off the header. It's loud as all hell and damnation, BUT - The bike definately runs cooler! It heats up at lights slower, and cools more quickly when you get going again. The general radiant heat when sitting still is greatly reduced as well, so that's the good news. Throttle response seems better, no noticeable power gains, per se. Besides without a dyno any gains could be nothing more than placebo effect.

Either way me happy for now with the heat problem solved. Now for the R6 header......

Just make sure your ride doesn't run lean without the exhaust! There's a reason why a PC is strongly suggest if not necessary with a TB exhaust. Same for your application. Like I post in a previous Thread... you can't just do one thing! You need to do it all at the same time.

 

[yellowfz]

SO change the exhaust and add a 10* cooler thermostat and good to go .
Exhaust change runs leaner (words of the wise) , lower coolant temp makes it a tad richer (again words of the wise here) , there you go offset taken care of .
I bet the processing power of the ECU on these bikes are diminutive at best .

Intake air temp.
Intake air pressure
Throttle position
Coolant temp
Speed sensor? (not sure if this one works with the mixture)

Not sensors but part of the process : What about injector Pulse width ? What about VE table (volumetric efficiency)?

Seems about right (might be missing a few) , very rudimentary processing . But you see IAT (Intake Air Temp) and ECT (Engine Coolant Temp) is part of the equation .
Like was stated in the first , taking the exhaust can off makes the radiant air much cooler (no CAT) , I see even here there are those that do not understand that when the Sales Reps say it runs leaner , they mean slightly , not excessively . True any thing changed does affect the motor , but the computers are loaded with a algorithm that compensates for minor changes , not every engine that comes off the line are exactly the same , have to have a little wiggle room for each engine , if not one would run great and the next two may run like crap .
If , like Autos , the add on boxes just do minor adjustments and to a few cells in the tune , and I would bet it is to timing .
As for IAT , true it goes by fast , but cylinder temp is a huge player (ECT).
As far as water burn off in the oil , don't think you are going to get a engine to get that cold unless you are in Alaska .

 

[owldaddy]

What about injector Pulse width ? What about VE table (volumetric efficiency)?

The pulse timing is what the ECU adjusts, which also adjust the amount of fuel the engine receives. The longer the "squirt" the more fuel.

 

[Marthy]

I think this Tread is getting way out of subject. Let's start an other one with "Let me show you how much I know about EFI" I tough this one was about somebody beating the shit out of his cat because his ride was too hot... lol Ah well, it was entertaining.

 

[yellowfz]

The pulse timing is what the ECU adjusts, which also adjust the amount of fuel the engine receives. The longer the "squirt" the more fuel.

Really , is that for you or everyone else , because I didn't need that ? I know what PWM is . :surrender:
Now for something completely different .
DLed Power Commander software and 4 MAPs for the bike , man nothing to it , just injector MAP , saw one version of PC that let you do injector and timing , but the Bazzaz is great , lets you do AFR in Stoichiometric values , I use Lambda and EQ but AFR is for the less involved .
For OP , mine gets up to 220* at stop lights , but seems to me since I changed the exhaust it runs a little cooler .

PWM (pulse width modulation)

 

[yellowfz]

I think this Tread is getting way out of subject. Let's start an other one with "Let me show you how much I know about EFI" I tough this one was about somebody beating the shit out of his cat because his ride was too hot... lol Ah well, it was entertaining.

Crap , forgot , but it all does have relevance to heat and CAT , in one way or another .
I prefer a ball peen or mallet for smashing a CAT , but then again a sledge does wonders .
I found carrying a ice pack in your crouch helps keep things cool , but then again it cause hot flashes when you hear a ice cream truck . :thumbup:

 

[owldaddy]

I found carrying a ice pack in your crouch helps keep things cool , but then again it cause hot flashes when you hear a ice cream truck

Oh dear, that could be hazardous to certain parts of the body . BTW jcbrown, I have already alerted the EPA, the Eco police should be descending on you at anytime now.

 

[Marthy]

Crap , forgot , but it all does have relevance to heat and CAT , in one way or another .
I prefer a ball peen or mallet for smashing a CAT , but then again a sledge does wonders .
I found carrying a ice pack in your crouch helps keep things cool , but then again it cause hot flashes when you hear a ice cream truck . :thumbup:

Last time I did that I end up pissing on my balls... lol :thumbup: At the end of the day it's all about having fun! Take care

 

[toddjcruz]

Just for giggle and to keep the thread as far off the original topic as possible (isint this fun), here are some auto maps

 

[Marthy]

I just restore this Wild beast! 500 HP at the wheel with only 13 psi of boost. I rewire the whole car, install an AEM fuel injection module, all the sensors and all from scratch!!! No diagram! If any of you were at the Monterey Classic at Laguna Seca might have seen this car (The Beast)

This car have a Buick Grand National engine (V6) with a mega turbo.

 

[JSP]

I just restore this Wild beast! 500 HP at the wheel with only 13 psi of boost. I rewire the whole car, install an AEM fuel injection module, all the sensors and all from scratch!!! No diagram! If any of you were at the Monterey Classic at Laguna Seca might have seen this car (The Beast)

This car have a Buick Grand National engine (V6) with a mega turbo.

Nice man!!! :thumbup:

 

[jcbrown630]

As for the continuation of this thread see another thread i posted about raising hell and pissing off those who don't like these bikes being ridden as they are supposed to on public roads.

For now . The question turns to Power Commander - PCV or PCIIIusb (still avail?) or TB Juice Box? Also what slipon and midpipe to put on the R6 headers when they arrive (This saturday?)