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Colorado shooting...

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blah blah blah
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this is mine: blah blah blah

yeah you're entitled to your opinion, just like I'm entitled to my right to bear arms. and to paraphrase your ramblings, you want to ban handguns, but rifles are ok right? and you really think people won't kill people with them (like they have been). guess your solution would be to ban all guns then, no? then why not.

IMHO your rationalization on this sensitive topic is so very flawed in so many ways.
 
I think I'll skip all the BS and bravado about how I would have capped his ass and how it wasn't possible to take him out and right vs wrong and all the arguments for or against armed citizens et al.
I'm just really sorry a bunch of people died and or were hurt but that is all I can say about the actual event.

I ask a simple question here.
How does an unemployed PHD candidate going to University full time (which is expensive as heck) afford at least $20,000.00 in tactical gear, weapons, ammunition and sophisticated booby trap explosive devices? WTF?

Either he led a secret life where he was a Navy Seal or Army Ranger to know about this stuff and how to use it and had a Sugar Mamma to pay for it all or I'm missing something here.
Then there is the fact that he acquired all of this gear. Some of which is not readily available to civilians at any price.

I'm thinking he had help in choosing, acquiring and paying for all this stuff.
 
I ask a simple question here.
How does an unemployed PHD candidate going to University full time (which is expensive as heck) afford at least $20,000.00 in tactical gear, weapons, ammunition and sophisticated booby trap explosive devices? WTF?

Credit cards are a hell of a thing. Extra student loan money? many ways that students get cash now-a-days.

As for getting it, all the weapons were purchased legally apparently, the ammo you can buy in bulk online, and I can go to an army surplus outlet and buy tactical body armor for a few hundred bucks.

ied's are beyond me though
 
I usually stay away from expressing strong personal opinions on this forum. I respect the opinion of every member here, and I did not join to argue with people. In this case, though, my feelings on this subject are too strong to keep my mouth shut.
First, my deepest sympathy to all involved in this senseless tragedy. I cannot imagine the pain of losing a loved one to such a random and pointless crime. I cannot even imagine the pain of surviving this event. I sincerely hope that those affected by this are able, one day, to lead what resembles a normal life again.
Now, to the gun advocates: Seriouly? In a dark, teargassed theatre with people running everywhere screaming, and shots ringing out, you're going to stand up, identify the shooter, evaluate his armour situation, and then pick him off with a prefectly placed shot in the neck right in-between his vest and helmet? Or clip his thigh and put him on the ground? Oh yeah, and with a handgun? Please. I support the notion of protecting oneself in an emergency, but appempting this shot is plain reckless. It's a panic reaction which has a slim possibility of being effective and a large possibility of contributing further to the chaos and confusion.
I know this is a polarizing topic, and I'm going to take a ton of crap for this, but really. Think about this honestly and tell me if you could make that shot without a chance of killing an innocnet bystander and adding to the chaos and tragedy. If you can, you're already taking that shot as part of your job, as the best SWAT marksman in the world. The notion of a civillian attempting that shot is reckless.
Now, you stand up and attempt this shot, and a split second later, someone else does the same, only they see you, arm outstretched, blasting away before they see the psycho who started all this. Guess what happens? At least your grieving friends and family can call you a hero through their tears at your funeral.
Multiply this by 3, or 7, or 22 "heroes". How many kill each other before the shooting stops? What happens when the cops show up in the middle of this gunfight? How do they know who to shoot?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this is mine: a handgun is a weapon with one practical purpose, which is killing people. Law enforcement are the only people who have any reason whatsoever to posess one. Part of their job is learning all of the proper moves in these tactical situations. Not a weekend hobby, a career. It shoud be a serious crime to have one if you're not required to have one as a part of your duties. Makes it simple. Posess a handgun, go to jail for 25-life, before you even shoot someone with it. Makes it a lot easier for the cops to sort out who is the bad guy.
By increasing the tolerance of firearms in a society, you are inviting more crime with firearms. Making handguns illegal will not eliminate this type of crime. Look at what happened in Norway. However, by making handguns less tolerable in society, people will have a less casual attitude toward them. For example, when I was a teen, loads of people in my school smoked pot. It was considered "cool". People openly did it, and openly admitted it. People constantly asked if I wanted to partake, tried to convince me it was harmless, encouraged me to try it, etc... Cocaine, however, was regarded as a serious drug. Sure, people did it, but they kept to themselves. Cocaine was a rumour. Nobody was walking up at lunch and offering it up.
Young people see "gun culture" and they want to emmulate it. They see "gangsters" in music videos and movies and think it's cool. They want to be cool. Change the message. Guns aren't cool, they kill people. They ruin families. They take young people full of potential and turn them instantly in to meat. They make orphans. A gun is the tool that caused someone's wife to not come home last night. Someone's sister laid awake all night last night, grappling with the shok of knowing she'll never, ever, see her brother again. Change the message. Make handguns illegal, and portray them as the instruments of terror they are. The psychos will always be out there, but this will push them further in to the shadows.
If you have a notion to go on a killing spree, and everyone is walking around with a gun, you blend in. If you're the only one with a gun, people notice. If handguns were illegal, there would have been more opportunities along the path the gun took from manufacture to this psycho's hand to intercept it. If handguns were illegal, it would have been harder for this psycho to even get one. It might not have prevented this crime, BUT IT MIGHT HAVE PREVENTED THIS CRIME. It's better odds that a handgun ban would have prevented this crime than a cowboy in the theatre with his six-shooter locked and loaded.
Change the message. Guns are not cool. They are not even as effective a defense tool as many people think. The solution to people shooting people is not more people shooting people.
You want to be John Wayne out there and kill some bad guys? Go down to your local police station and hand in a resume.
I did not write this post to incite an argument. I did not write this post to incite debate. I wrote this post in hopes that someone, even one person, might see my point and join me in trying to help reduce gun violence in the method which I truly believe will work. I respect everyone's honest opinion, and did not write this post do discredit those who have a different opinion than I do. I expect there will be posts which disagree with my position, and I respect those opinions. I will not engage in an argument to defend this opinion. This post makes my opinion and the reasons behind it quite plain, and I respectfully decline to argue about it.
The real topic here is the victims. To them, my sympathy. Whatever the solution, I hope as a society we all make a concentrated and honest effort to reduce these types of crime in the future.

Sorry but this is asinine and even though you are from Canada, which is no surprise by the way, I'm thankfull every day people like you are the minority in this country. In this country we have what is called the 2nd Amendment!! It was written to protect the right of the people to defend themselves and have an armed populous to defend the country from foreign and internal threats to our liberty, I.E. the Government trying to take away our Rights or some psyco who shoots up a movie theater while I'm there. We have a God given right to protect ourselves and our family. To sit there and blindly think that making guns illegal, or as you put it "portray them as instruments of terror" is going to majically reduce violence in this country or "put the criminals further in the shadows" are the thoughts of somebody with no sense of reality.
I work at one of the most violent Penitentiaries in this country. Every day I see 1600 of the worst of the worst of the worst this country has to offer. It's laughable that you think these gang bangers, drug dealers, rapists, and murderers are just going to quit doing what they do because the Government makes a law that takes away one of the longest standing tools in this country to defend ourselves. There are evil people in this world and no matter how pussyfied you people want to make this country or how much you want to "change the message of guns", these evil people will continue to come out of those shadows to prey on the innocent.
And what the hell does your comment mean....."it makes it a lot easier for the cops to sort out who is the bad guy." You think I give a damn about what the cops think when I'm in the movie theater with my wife or kid and some nuts starts shooting up the place. Believe it or not, but it's going to take the cops some time to get there. During that time, maybe you will crawl up in a little ball like a coward and let your family die, but I'm not going to be a victim and I'm not going out without a fight. If you want to call that being a weekend warrior or a John Wayne, then so be it. At least I'd be able to look myself in the face knowing I tried to save a life instead doing nothing and sitting back and watching people die.

And No I'm not sorry if this pisses anybody off:mad:
 
In an argument for the right to bear arms I remember something I read a while back. In the plans for attacking the US in WWII the Japanese had brought up an attack on the mainland. This idea was not put to use because it was said that an attack on the main land would never be successful. The quote I remember was "There would be a firearm behind every blade of grass". This is easily translatable to everyday life. If a criminal is contemplating victimizing somebody he might think twice if he knows a good portion of the population is armed. I say the more responsible people conceal carrying the better. Just my opinion
 
... Law enforcement are the only people who have any reason whatsoever to posess one. Part of their job is learning...

right. and remember guns don't hurt people, people hurt people. always safety first!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-jTCNZSmY]police instructor shoots himself in the foot for the class - YouTube[/ame]
 
An armed citizen, in the movie theater, could *not* have resolved this particular situation... and worse, could have exacerbated the situation.


You are crazy to think a armed citizen could *not* have resolved this situation. you sound just like those who want to take our guns away. A armed WELL TRAINED citizen could have and would have stopped this sooner.!
 
For me it's not just about guns, I mean any psycho that goes off the deep end mentally could create massive death and destruction, just use your imagination for a moment - uh, fire, bombs, vehicular, machete, bat.

The fact is that we are very vunerable, for me it is an act of cowardice and evil pure and simple, this person hurt us and for his own personal satisfaction, likely in some sort of revenge on humanity for not loving him sort of thing. I mean f**k you, all the little pussies out there shooting up innocent people, I say torture this sick f**k, I could care less if he is 'menatlly ill', make him a poster child for all the other pussie a** little wanna be revenge mongers. I am really getting tired of these a**holes.
 
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great, now the idiots are calling to pull the movie from showing, they even have a website/twatter
 
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You are crazy to think a armed citizen could *not* have resolved this situation. you sound just like those who want to take our guns away. A armed WELL TRAINED citizen could have and would have stopped this sooner.!

I think you are expecting a well trained citizen to also be able to ignore the effects of tear gas sir.

causes crying, sneezing, coughing, difficulty breathing, pain in the eyes, temporary blindness.

I haven't been hit with tear gas but I have went through TONS of training for my armed security job which has more training then some police agencies. For my course of fire we use the FLETC ( Federal Law Enforcement Training Center) and DCJS for VA. I don't even think I could have pulled my weapon and fired a perfectly placed shot in between his armor sir. Don't take this the wrong way. But I just don't think most people could do this.
 
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Credit cards are a hell of a thing. Extra student loan money? many ways that students get cash now-a-days.

As for getting it, all the weapons were purchased legally apparently, the ammo you can buy in bulk online, and I can go to an army surplus outlet and buy tactical body armor for a few hundred bucks.

ied's are beyond me though

Again...How does an UNENPLOYED student get the $$..The only job he ever had was a part time McDonalds job. He doesn't have credit..He owes a ton of money to student loans..Who is going to issue him a credit card these days?
And if they do, it will be for $500.00 max......so he then needs 40 credit cards to get $20,000.00....

It just does not add up or make sense.
 
Again...How does an UNENPLOYED student get the $$..The only job he ever had was a part time McDonalds job. He doesn't have credit..He owes a ton of money to student loans..Who is going to issue him a credit card these days?
And if they do, it will be for $500.00 max......so he then needs 40 credit cards to get $20,000.00....

It just does not add up or make sense.

where is this $20k number coming from? reports are saying his arsenal would total maybe from a couple to a few thousand. his parents are fairly well off and maybe sent him cash, also his student loans might've gave him some decent spending $ that he saved and lived like a poor college student eating ramen...
 
It said he was dropping out of college or something like that so maybe he spent his tuition money on the stuff. Plus there are a crazy amount of grants and student loans available if you know where to look.
 
where is this $20k number coming from? reports are saying his arsenal would total maybe from a couple to a few thousand. his parents are fairly well off and maybe sent him cash, also his student loans might've gave him some decent spending $ that he saved and lived like a poor college student eating ramen...

Those "Reports" are BS.
Like level III armor only being a couple of hundred dollars in the Army/Navy store....Doesn't freakin happen. You get level 1 armor...level 2 with kevlar is even expensive when you add the throat and gonad protectors to the chest protector but a level 3 setup is in the 4k range....Do the homework and look at what he was wearing and using. He had top of the line/most expensive equipment money can buy.

It is a possibility Mommy sent him a chunk of cash to buy all this stuff....or he won the lottory.
 
Those "Reports" are BS.
Like level III armor only being a couple of hundred dollars in the Army/Navy store....Doesn't freakin happen. You get level 1 armor...level 2 with kevlar is even expensive when you add the throat and gonad protectors to the chest protector but a level 3 setup is in the 4k range....Do the homework and look at what he was wearing and using. He had top of the line/most expensive equipment money can buy.

It is a possibility Mommy sent him a chunk of cash to buy all this stuff....or he won the lottory.

umm ok but still, even with this expensive gear + the guns/ammo still might come to $10k, don't see that number much of an issue for anyone really, if they have the will they will find a way. this guy is smart, mental brain yes, but IQ prob. double the average criminal. besides, it isn't out of the norm at all for college kids to rack up thousands in credit card bills
 
An armed citizen, in the movie theater, could *not* have resolved this particular situation... and worse, could have exacerbated the situation.


You are crazy to think a armed citizen could *not* have resolved this situation. you sound just like those who want to take our guns away. A armed WELL TRAINED citizen could have and would have stopped this sooner.!

To be honest with you in this situation we probably wouldn't be that successful. Against those weapons and armor, even with the advanced training I've recieved, I'm not even 100% sure I'd be able to take him out. The point I'm trying to get accross to people is that considering the alternative in this situation, which is just sitting there and watching him slaughter innocent people, I'm sure as hell going to try and stop him. Maybe I get lucky and a round pierces his armor or I get a clean head shot and take him out. Maybe me shooting at him would draw his attention off the other people long enough for more of them to escape. Maybe he would freeze in fear of having somebody else shooting back at him for the first time in his life. Maybe he would have thought I was a cop and gave up or ran off after I hit him with a few rounds. Who knows what the outcome would have been. The only guarantee in this situation is if nobody does anything you're dead and many more people will be too.

I'm so tired of this conversation coming up everytime some nutjob decides to go Rambo on a group of people. This dipshit had it in his mind he was going to kill somebody. If it wasn't guns it would have been with the expolives he was making. This friggin Liberal ideology that we need more laws and that we need the Government to protect us from the cradle to the grave makes me sick.
 
Those "Reports" are BS.
Like level III armor only being a couple of hundred dollars in the Army/Navy store....Doesn't freakin happen. You get level 1 armor...level 2 with kevlar is even expensive when you add the throat and gonad protectors to the chest protector but a level 3 setup is in the 4k range....Do the homework and look at what he was wearing and using. He had top of the line/most expensive equipment money can buy.

It is a possibility Mommy sent him a chunk of cash to buy all this stuff....or he won the lottory.

You're right that type of armor is expensive however, it's not that hard to get. Take a look inside a GALLS magazine and you will see they sell all that equipment in there. Obviously they ony sell it to law enforcement, but their verification proccess isn't all that hard to beat. If this kid is half as smart as they make him out to be, he would have been able to beat it. Plus who knows, maybe he has a friend or family that works in law enforcement who purchased it for him. Nobody knows for sure. The FBI should be able to trace the make, manufacturer, and serial numbers on the equipment and find out where it was purchased and by who.
 
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