Bike lost power tonight...need some insight.

[JSP]

I don't know about anyone else, but I take the clutch out of the equation by putting the bike in neutral before I turn the bike off with the key. Seems safe enough to me. I've never used my kill switch, but I'm well aware of where it is.

Do you put the bike back in gear before you get off? I would not leave my bike in N while away from it. I've had my bike roll before. I always leave in gear. I always use the kill switch (give me one good reason not to....) (I dont mean that rude in any way, just dont see a single reason not to use it.) I use it on every bike I have owned and ridden.

 

[AngryAnt]

Do you put the bike back in gear before you get off? I would not leave my bike in N while away from it. I've had my bike roll before. I always leave in gear. I always use the kill switch (give me one good reason not to....) (I dont mean that rude in any way, just dont see a single reason not to use it.) I use it on every bike I have owned and ridden.

Not to hijack, but I always use the kill switch. When I come to a stop, I hit the killswitch with my thumb, kick out the kickstand, lower it, step off, then grab my keys. Being short and not having outstanding balance to begin with, somehow I have it in the back of my head that stopping, reaching for the keys to turn it off I might accidentally lean and drop it. Sounds stupid, but hey, I never claimed to be sane Then again it took me weeks before I was comfortable enough to take my hand off the handlebars to wave at people. I think that's a result from my last bike not being really aerodynamic, and if I took a hand off the bike would start veering.

 

[Nastybutler]

Do you put the bike back in gear before you get off? I would not leave my bike in N while away from it. I've had my bike roll before. I always leave in gear. I always use the kill switch (give me one good reason not to....) (I dont mean that rude in any way, just dont see a single reason not to use it.) I use it on every bike I have owned and ridden.

I always leave it in neutral and have never had it roll on me because I always park on level ground or a slight incline where the kickstand acts as a brake.

As for the main reason not to use the kill switch, if you get in a hurry and forget to turn the key off, you can be left with either a dead battery, or a stolen bike.

 

[alaskanflyboy]

I always leave it in neutral and have never had it roll on me because I always park on level ground or a slight incline where the kickstand acts as a brake.

As for the main reason not to use the kill switch, if you get in a hurry and forget to turn the key off, you can be left with either a dead battery, or a stolen bike.

Even running late for work, I've yet to forget the key in the bike. Though the key always comes out after I hit the kill switch. I'm just used to it I guess. The planes I've flown have been similar. Kill the engine with the mixture lever, shut down the electrical, then turn the key off and take it out. I have to turn the key onthe bike to lock the forks regardless, which I do always.

 

[Nastybutler]

Even running late for work, I've yet to forget the key in the bike. Though the key always comes out after I hit the kill switch. I'm just used to it I guess. The planes I've flown have been similar. Kill the engine with the mixture lever, shut down the electrical, then turn the key off and take it out. I have to turn the key onthe bike to lock the forks regardless, which I do always.

Knock on wood

 

[Deanohh]

My reason is that I'm too lazy to do 2 things to shut the bike off. I want to shut it off doing only one thing which is grabbing the key, then I'm done.

 

[Deanohh]

that is a good point. However, the real reason that we promote the use of the engine cut-off switch is safety. Since the key can be anywhere on a motorcycle, it is a good idea to take the clutch (with engine running) out of the equation by turning the engine off with both hands on the handle bar before searching for the key.

Yeah, but once you find out where the key is on your bike the first time, it is always in the same place after that.

 

[FlyZ6R]

Knock on wood

What's to knock on wood for? Do you forget the keys in your car too? If you leave the keys with the ignition on (i.e. drain the battery) then you've got bigger problems. You're just asking to have your bike stolen, and you should probably question your mental state before you go anywhere in operation of a motorized vehicle.

Having both hands on the controls is the main reason my instructor gave us at the BRC for using the kill switch. It also ensures that the engine is not going to start again until you want it to. It really isn't that hard to accidentally bump the starter. It's a lot less likely to accidentally bump the kill switch on AND the starter. I'm a pilot as well and turning everything off is pretty standard in aviation. There is absolutely ZERO disadvantage to turning the engine off with the kill switch, popping the kickstand down, setting it down, and locking the bars with the key.

Parking the bike in neutral isn't the best idea either. Well unless you ALWAYS park on level ground or slight incline and trust the "brake" on your kickstand. Here's how I take the clutch out of the equation: I TURN THE ENGINE OFF WITH THE KILL SWITCH! I don't have to take my hands off the controls, and my feet don't leave the ground. What are the odds of me dropping the bike on shutdown? Practically nil.

You are all obviously free to do whatever you want, and in the grand scheme of things it isn't that big of a deal. However, when "accidents" happen, and you look back with that 20/20 hindsight, can you say that every action possible to mitigate a mishap were taken? Or did complacency in little things cause the "holes to line up" for a mishap to occur?

Or you could just continue to "knock on wood".

 

[Deanohh]

On my chopper the kill switch was the on-off switch and I didn't need a key at all. Glad its still a free country.

Oh yeah, and with the goose shift, you had one hand off the bars almost all the time.

 

[Osoreru]

somehow I have it in the back of my head that stopping, reaching for the keys to turn it off I might accidentally lean and drop it.

This is exactly the reason I used it, however. To be even more detailed as to what happened to me: The road I was on is extremely twisty. I was going around a curve when my trouble started. To get off of this road and into the only safe place, I had to make somewhat of a u-turn with the engine off, and oncoming traffic, around a sorta triangle shaped 3 way intersection. The "safe place" was the parking lot of one of the many car shops that line the road, but the parking lot was dirt/gravel and the entry road was downhill. So going through my head, as i'm making this turn and pushing myself towards the hill, is that if I let go of the handlebars I'm going to drop the bike. So I very quickly hit the kill-switch (and this is the part that's a little fuzzy, and makes me wonder if it wasn't already off. I really don't know at this point if the switch clicked when I hit it or if it was already flipped, all I could think of was not getting hit and not falling over). So yea. Dark country road in the middle of what is actually a huge swamp that people have built up over the years (though there are still some huge gators, tons of snakes, etc), so pulling off just on the side of the road is a bad idea. At least everything seems to be ok now. I've been riding it all day in the many commutes I've had to do, at a lot of different speed ranges, and nothing has happened.

 

[Nastybutler]

What's to knock on wood for? Do you forget the keys in your car too? If you leave the keys with the ignition on (i.e. drain the battery) then you've got bigger problems. You're just asking to have your bike stolen, and you should probably question your mental state before you go anywhere in operation of a motorized vehicle.

Having both hands on the controls is the main reason my instructor gave us at the BRC for using the kill switch. It also ensures that the engine is not going to start again until you want it to. It really isn't that hard to accidentally bump the starter. It's a lot less likely to accidentally bump the kill switch on AND the starter. I'm a pilot as well and turning everything off is pretty standard in aviation. There is absolutely ZERO disadvantage to turning the engine off with the kill switch, popping the kickstand down, setting it down, and locking the bars with the key.

Parking the bike in neutral isn't the best idea either. Well unless you ALWAYS park on level ground or slight incline and trust the "brake" on your kickstand. Here's how I take the clutch out of the equation: I TURN THE ENGINE OFF WITH THE KILL SWITCH! I don't have to take my hands off the controls, and my feet don't leave the ground. What are the odds of me dropping the bike on shutdown? Practically nil.

You are all obviously free to do whatever you want, and in the grand scheme of things it isn't that big of a deal. However, when "accidents" happen, and you look back with that 20/20 hindsight, can you say that every action possible to mitigate a mishap were taken? Or did complacency in little things cause the "holes to line up" for a mishap to occur?

Or you could just continue to "knock on wood".

Wow. I was referring to the way superstitious people knock on wood after they say they've "never" done something. Such as, "I've never been in an accident; knock on wood." Since alaskanflyguy said he'd never left his key on. I thought that was self explanatory, but okay, if you want to rant about how I operate my bike, I hope you feel like the better man now that you've gotten that off your chest.

Since you're Mr. Safety-By-The-Book, I guess you're one of those jerks who never waves back to fellow motorcyclists, since that would involve taking one of your indispensable hands off the handlebars (while the bike is moving no less, OMG!), which as you were quick to point out to me, is a big no-no according to the BRC course.

Someday when I come and post about how I dropped my bike when it rolled on me because I left it in neutral, or because while I was putting it into neutral I lost my balance, (although if you can't balance the bike on one foot without tipping over, you, as you put it, should probably question your mental state before you go anywhere in operation of a motorized vehicle) you can deride me and call me all manner of names.

Until then, you can pound sand.

 

[FlyZ6R]

I figured this would happen. Nasty, I am sorry for snapping off like that. I've had a rough couple of days and it's made me a bit irritable. It's not an excuse, I was wrong in the manner of my response. I most sincerely apologize for that.

As far as riding techniques, like I said, you are free to do whatever you want. I still stand behind my reasoning and have yet to see any evidence to convince me that I should change it. I DO wave to other riders (big difference in stability when you're moving vs stationary as I'm sure we are all aware of.

Anyway, i won't go on about it any longer. I hope you'll accept my apology.

 

[Nastybutler]

No need to apologize, but that's very gracious of you. I didn't mean to come off as butt hurt. It's all good, man.

 

[MiltonDorkenhoff]

Honestly I'm not sure how fast I was going. When the trouble started I had already pulled in the clutch, hit the brakes, and downshifted into 5th. When I realized that the engine was off is when I was letting the clutch back out and nothing happened. I looked down at the speedometer at that point and I was at ~45, so all things considered, I was probably up around 65-70 when I started braking.

Edit: went back and looked at my first post and realized that I didn't actually include this part of what happened. Should have been a little more detailed from the start. Sorry about that.

Sorry for the delay, and I realize this turned into a debate about using kill switches, but I've got a question (for you or anyone else).. When you downshifted into 5th with the engine was off, then shouldn't the rear tire have locked up some when you let the clutch out?

Actually, even when the engine died in 6th originally, I would have thought the tire would have locked up somewhat, no?

 

[FlyZ6R]

The way I understand it (and I may be wrong), if the engine dies while you're at speed the tires won't lock up. You're engine would basically be a big, complex mechanical brake that will slow your tire speed down. In other words, the energy from your tires rotating will drive the engine instead of your engine driving the tires. The amount of energy required to "drive your engine" will continually slow your tire speed down as it uses that energy and you'll eventually stop.

This is all assuming that you aren't in Neutral or disengaging the clutch of course. If you held the clutch in you'd just drift along. If you held the clutch in, slowed down, didn't down-shift, and popped the clutch at slow speed the tires could certainly lock up since they wouldn't have enough energy to drive the gears (similar to what it would do with the engine running). It's all an issue of matching tire speed with engine speed. I would imagine that shifting down to 5th with a dead engine would be rough since nothing is keeping the engine turning except the tires (through the clutch and gears). My hypothesis is that speed shifting (no clutch) would probably be the most "smooth" method of shifting; if you can accomplish it and you feel the need to shift.

Having all the time in the world to think about it I think I would just clutch it, shift to neutral, drift, and stop using the brakes. It may or may not be the most correct action, I've never really thought about it before this thread came up.

Thanks for sharing your experience with us Osoreru!

 

[Osoreru]

The way I understand it (and I may be wrong), if the engine dies while you're at speed the tires won't lock up. You're engine would basically be a big, complex mechanical brake that will slow your tire speed down. In other words, the energy from your tires rotating will drive the engine instead of your engine driving the tires. The amount of energy required to "drive your engine" will continually slow your tire speed down as it uses that energy and you'll eventually stop.

This is all assuming that you aren't in Neutral or disengaging the clutch of course. If you held the clutch in you'd just drift along. If you held the clutch in, slowed down, didn't down-shift, and popped the clutch at slow speed the tires could certainly lock up since they wouldn't have enough energy to drive the gears (similar to what it would do with the engine running). It's all an issue of matching tire speed with engine speed. I would imagine that shifting down to 5th with a dead engine would be rough since nothing is keeping the engine turning except the tires (through the clutch and gears). My hypothesis is that speed shifting (no clutch) would probably be the most "smooth" method of shifting; if you can accomplish it and you feel the need to shift.

Having all the time in the world to think about it I think I would just clutch it, shift to neutral, drift, and stop using the brakes. It may or may not be the most correct action, I've never really thought about it before this thread came up.

Thanks for sharing your experience with us Osoreru!

This is exactly what happened, in fact. It was exactly like any normal "engine braking" would be. I'll assume that most if not all of you know what engine braking is and have probably done it before, so I won't go into heavy detail about it. But that's what happened, and I was slowing down a lot faster than I liked with traffic coming up behind me. So I ended up pulling in the clutch and trying to restart the engine and coasting at about ~35mph.

I actually shifted down to 5th and let the clutch out before I knew the engine wasn't running. In fact, the reason I knew it wasn't running is the bike started acting like it would as if I were engine braking normaly and rolling on the throttle didn't accelerate me. So yea, it really wasn't that bad, and wasn't rough or jerky and there were no wheel lockups at all. Kinda good for future reference if I or anyone else ever has to kill the engine at a higher speed I think.