math fail

[Scott_Thomas]

Maybe, but it is not written that way, therefore that is not the equation
and there is no parenthesis present, which means it doesn't get treated like it has them

What yellowfz is trying to represent is the order of operations (PEMDAS). May not be laid out like that but my looking at 40+40x0+1= we already know there is no paranthesis "P", no exponents "E", so we skip those steps, but there is multiplication "M". So you would need to multiple (40x0)0. No division "D" skip this step. Next step is addition "A" so add the remaining numbers 40+(0 from multiplication step)+1=41. There is no subtraction so you also skip the subtraction "S". Unless I am overlooking something silly this should be correct.

 

[Bert-Aus]

That whole PEMDA's approach wasn't taught when I was at school (in Aus BTW) and to my mind, that is what is catching out those who were taught that method.
My understanding of mathematics (not the best around for sure) is simply left to right reading,
which the PEMDA approach is seems to go about it differently.

Either way it is interesting to see how different we can all interpret a simple equation,
which I don't intend to draw lines in the sand about and begin to start throwing babies out with the bath water

 

[bleedinblue]

That whole PEMDA's approach wasn't taught when I was at school (in Aus BTW) and to my mind, that is what is catching out those who were taught that method.
My understanding of mathematics (not the best around for sure) is simply left to right reading,
which the PEMDA approach is seems to go about it differently.

Either way it is interesting to see how different we can all interpret a simple equation,
which I don't intend to draw lines in the sand about and begin to start throwing babies out with the bath water

I voted 1 last night going left to right

 

[yellowfz]

Maybe, but it is not written that way, therefore that is not the equation
and there is no parenthesis present, which means it doesn't get treated like it has them

I agree. Showed it to my wife who is pretty smart, she deduced the same thing, no parenthesis follow the flow, it seems that omitting the parenthesis makes the equation somewhat an incomplete trick equation.
It just seem to me in my limited knowledge of coding (40*0) +40 +1 is correct way to express it.
Silly math geniuses confuse me sometimes.
I am with you Bet-Aus, was not taught that in class, but Microsoft Excel teaches us things.

 

[Botty12]

Maybe, but it is not written that way, therefore that is not the equation
and there is no parenthesis present, which means it doesn't get treated like it has them

PEDMAS is meant to be used deductively.

Are there parentheses? No? Go onto Exponents. Have any exponents to solve? No? Go onto division. Any division? No? Go onto multiplication. Oh look, there's multiplication. Do it first. Then move onto addition. Is there addition? Yes? Do that next. Any subtraction? Yes? Do that now.

It doesn't matter if there's parentheses or not. Follow the order of operations.

 

[Scott_Thomas]

PEDMAS is meant to be used deductively.

Are there parentheses? No? Go onto Exponents. Have any exponents to solve? No? Go onto division. Any division? No? Go onto multiplication. Oh look, there's multiplication. Do it first. Then move onto addition. Is there addition? Yes? Do that next. Any subtraction? Yes? Do that now.

It doesn't matter if there's parentheses or not. Follow the order of operations.

Exactamente! I had a few college algebra classes so it is used after high school. Only have one math class left in my last year of classes for my Bachelor's in IT security. It's Discrete mathematics which is a combinations of lots of math disciplines. I like math and numbers, but I hear discrete math can make or break you. You get it and it's easy or you don't and struggle. Hope I'm in group one since I aced my algebra classes.

 

[Sneakynuts]

It still wasnt taught that way when I went to school a few years back in the UK

I am with Bert on this one....

Or maybe I had the day off from school when they did teach it!

 

[MiltonDorkenhoff]

Order of operations is apparently taught in 4th grade.

 

[Scott_Thomas]

Order of operations is apparently taught in 4th grade.

My son's in forth grade and I don't remember him learning it. They also learn some stupid new Common Core math which is ridiculously redundant and slow. I learned it early on, but don't remember what grade. School year's not over though so maybe it's toward the end of the year. He get's himself in trouble by doing the math in his head and forgetting to show his work sometimes. The CC method is so horrible.

 

[Scott_Thomas]

Order of operations is apparently taught in 4th grade.

You have any in school Milton? Do they teach Common Core? I can't even help him and I and my wife excel in math usually. She's in accounting.

 

[bmw675]

(in Aus BTW)

Well that could be the difference. I won't hold your origins nation against you. It may be taught wrong over there, but you do have kickass kangaroos.

And I'm gonna have to pull my bachelors degree in economics and finance on this one.

 

[leem00]

You have any in school Milton? Do they teach Common Core? I can't even help him and I and my wife excel in math usually. She's in accounting.

I believe Indiana just dropped comon core math.... from my understanding it was derived to help the people who struggle with math... which as always is a smaller percentage of the population. Honestly they should teach both and let the child decide which is easier for them. IMHO!

I don't get it and I am a controller....

Back to topic though...like every thing else there are rules to math...Order of operations is one of them. you ignore the order of operations you get the wrong answer.


Order of operations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dart1963]

PEMDAS? or BODMAS? wtf? - frankarr - an aussie microsoft blogger - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

"PEMDAS? or BODMAS?"

"Brackets, Order, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction"


Apparently, it is taught in UK and AUS, but it's BODMAS, ring any bells?


I get the common core concept, but it's just not taught right and trying to explain that over basic math is just wrong, it should be taught later, but not as the only way to do math, but as an option.
I use some of it when playing darts, e.g. for a triple 17, it's easy to do a triple 20, 60, the subtract triple 3, 9 for the answer of 51 than to try to do triple 17 in your head, at least for me. Or you could do triple 7 and triple 10 and add them... it helps, but again not being taught right imho

 

[Scott_Thomas]

PEMDAS? or BODMAS? wtf? - frankarr - an aussie microsoft blogger - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

"PEMDAS? or BODMAS?"

"Brackets, Order, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction"


Apparently, it is taught in UK and AUS, but it's BODMAS, ring any bells?


I get the common core concept, but it's just not taught right and trying to explain that over basic math is just wrong, it should be taught later, but not as the only way to do math, but as an option.
I use some of it when playing darts, e.g. for a triple 17, it's easy to do a triple 20, 60, the subtract triple 3, 9 for the answer of 51 than to try to do triple 17 in your head, at least for me. Or you could do triple 7 and triple 10 and add them... it helps, but again not being taught right imho

I've always done that too Don, that part make sense to handle doing equations in your head. CC for some problems is tedious and time consuming. I looked at the problem and knew the answer (as did my son) and then he had to write it out. He only knows the CC method though as it has been taught since my daughters were in school.

 

[alaskanflyboy]

I believe it was the end of 3rd grade when they started teaching orders of operation to me. It also coincided with moving from simple math and into equations using more than one operator. I also learned a trick, which has never yet failed, to turn all subtraction into the addition of a negative, which allowed shifting it around like the rest of the addition. It's always been my understanding that the order of operations is always used for all math.

 

[Scott_Thomas]

I believe it was the end of 3rd grade when they started teaching orders of operation to me. It also coincided with moving from simple math and into equations using more than one operator. I also learned a trick, which has never yet failed, to turn all subtraction into the addition of a negative, which allowed shifting it around like the rest of the addition. It's always been my understanding that the order of operations is always used for all math.

You're 100% correct, order of operations has always been used. Early on you don't get problems difficult enough to worry about it. Middle school/HS/College it's 100% necessary for any math class (less Geometry - don't consider it math, but eh). Otherwise if order of operations weren't being used years back everyone's math would have been wrong. Early on it is simplified to actually write them in the order in which they should be processed.

 

[abyss1406]

» Meme Comics ? Safe Math

this.....

 

[MiltonDorkenhoff]

Otherwise if order of operations weren't being used years back everyone's math would have been wrong.

Instead of just the 17 percent or so that are wrong in this poll?

With Common Core, order of operations apparently moved to fifth grade (here). There are some examples there if anyone is interested.

 

[Scott_Thomas]

Instead of just the 17 percent or so that are wrong in this poll?

With Common Core, order of operations apparently moved to fifth grade (here). There are some examples there if anyone is interested.

Yeah, pretty much. LOL

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[latony007]

i would never have though this topic would generate so many responses and opinions. i thought i was reading 87 vs 91 for a second there