Got a ticket...

[cbzdel]

Just wanted to post it up on here.. Got pulled over by a state trooper last month..

He came back with a ticket for $124 which states:
RCW: 46.37.200 - Defect turn signal/stop lamps/no turn signals/integrated tail light.

He tells me they are not legal in WA...

Part of RCW 46.37.200 says: Turn signal lamps may, but need not be, incorporated in other lamps on the vehicle.

Now after research I found that federal law states, motorcycle tail lights must be 9" apart..

I am debating trying to fight it and play dumb... Say I did not know it was illegal until I was stopped and after reading what I was written up for it says integrated lights are legal.. What are the chances the judge will know federal motorcycle law????

Link to RCW 46.37.200
RCW 46.37.200: Stop lamps and electric turn signals displayed.

 

[99vengeur]

Fight it! Don't even bring up the federal law. You were pulled over by a state officer, not the FBI. Bring in the statute that says they can be integrated into other lamps, and go from there.

Good Luck!

 

[DragonBlu]

Sorry for your troubles,but with my vast experience with judges the "I didn't know that it was illegal defense" only puts another nail in your coffin. That has always been my experience until I quit using it. Good luck and always fight it,just figure out an angle.

 

[dart1963]

Part of RCW 46.37.200 says: Turn signal lamps may, but need not be, incorporated in other lamps on the vehicle.

on this alone I would fight it... if nothing else, the law is very confusing for a common person.

Aren't the fed "law" you are talking about just guidelines, didn't know the constitution gave the fed authority on vehicle safety lights ?

Do you have some specific ref. to the federal "law"?

yeah, and what Dragon said, "ignorance " of the law isn't an excuse, anymore than "the guy next to me had the same thing but you didn't pull him over"... go in with you evidence of why you thought it was a legal modification and go from there. Best case the trooper doesn't show up (not likely), worse case, you walk away with the fine.

 

[cbzdel]

For the federal law, I never knew it existed, until someone on another forum told me about this:

I am guessing its DOT guidelines?

§ 571.108 49 CFR Ch. V (10–1–03 Edition)
TABLE IV—LOCATION OF REQUIRED EQUIPMENT—Continued
[All Passenger Cars and Motorcycles, and Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, Trailers, and Buses of Less than 80 (2032)
Inches (MM) Overall Width]

Turn signal lamps ..... At or near the front—1 amber on
each side of the vertical centerline,
at the same height, and as
far apart as practicable.
On the rear—1 red or amber on
each side of the vertical centerline,
at the same height, and as
far apart as practicable.
At or near the front—1 amber on each side
of the vertical centerline at the same
height, and having a minimum horizontal
separation distance (centerline of lamps)
of 16 inches. Minimum edge to edge
separation distance between lamp and
headlamp is 4 inches.
At or near the rear—1 red or amber on
each side of the vertical centerline, at
the same height and having a minimum
horizontal separation distance (centerline
to centerline of lamps) of 9 inches. Minimum
edge to edge separation distance
between lamp and tail or stop lamp is 4–
inches, when a single stop and taillamp
is installed on the vertical centerline and
the turn signal lamps are red..

 

[cbzdel]

I am really just thinking of telling the judge I never would have expected them to be illegal because so many local riders, I would say 6 out of 10 street bike I see have them so I actually really was surprised when I was ticketed. I went home to look online to buy some new blinkers when I decided to search for the law I was written up for, then after reading the law its states that the turn signals and stop lights can be incorporated.. So why ticket me if the law says I can do it?

That is actually the honest truth haha...

 

[Spunky99]

Fight it and DO NOT play dumb.

Fight the ticket based upon the State code in place at the time of the ticket.
There is no specified distance except as practical.
If the Judge is stupid enough to try to enforce Federal law in a State court, inform him that he has exceeded the scope of his employment and cannot enforce nor try you on any Federal laws irrespective as to the unconstitutionality of those laws.

The US Constitution did not give the Feds any right to enforce any vehicle laws specifically. The 10th amendment to the US Constitution. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The State Superior court does not have the power to convict you on any Federal law. An appeal to the State Supreme court will bear this out and cost the Judge dearly.

 

[Detrich]

sorry to hear cbz...

i think everyone's advice is sound- ie fight it, but use the state code as a defense. and, do not argue that u didn't know or that other bikes have it. it's kinda like window tint or front plate laws... only the state code is a valid defense.

let us know how it goes and break a leg!

 

[cbzdel]

So basically go in there and all I need to say is.

First I maybe should ask if the judge even knows what an integrated tail light is? If not inform him?

Then state, I have researched RCW 46.37.200 which I was ticked for, for having an integrated tail light. And it specifically states withing the law "Turn signal lamps may, but need not be, incorporated in other lamps on the vehicle." and which in my case the turn signals have been incorporated into my tail light.

 

[dart1963]

So basically go in there and all I need to say is.

First I maybe should ask if the judge even knows what an integrated tail light is? If not inform him?

Then state, I have researched RCW 46.37.200 which I was ticked for, for having an integrated tail light. And it specifically states withing the law "Turn signal lamps may, but need not be, incorporated in other lamps on the vehicle." and which in my case the turn signals have been incorporated into my tail light.

yep, don't volunteer more than, "I plead not guilty"

according to this :insert ref to law: I believe my equipment complies.

bring video and offer to show as evidence you have a turn signal integrated into your brake light to support your case, or receipts of the model you bought and documentation of how they work .

do all this with the utmost respect to the judge and do not talk down about the trooper either.

 

[ry-mac75]

sounds to me like you just got an overzealous dickhead of a cop... it happens. I honestly doubt he'd even show up if you fought it because he will be well aware that it won't stick and he'll look like a bit of a dummy for issuing the ticket.

Love to hear how it turns out - go get 'em.

 

[DragonBlu]

yep, don't volunteer more than, "I plead not guilty"

according to this :insert ref to law: I believe my equipment complies.

bring video and offer to show as evidence you have a turn signal integrated into your brake light to support your case, or receipts of the model you bought and documentation of how they work .

do all this with the utmost respect to the judge and do not talk down about the trooper either.

Excellent advice! You sound like maybe you have had some experience also?

 

[toddjcruz]

If you purchased it online, provide any form of regulatory compliance sticker or certification. That will get you off. However, if its even close, you just run the chance of getting dinged again. Even if you get off, you will still be issued the ticket anyway and left to do it all over again. I dealt with this issue when I was younger and running a slightly more yellow headlight, that according to law in oregon, was legal. However, most cops didnt think so and regardless if I was right, I just kept getting pulled over, ticketed and sent to court. I just gave up and changed back. Some things are just not worth the effort, even if you are right.

I've been married for 22 years, I leared that fact quickly!

 

[dart1963]

Excellent advice! You sound like maybe you have had some experience also?

nah... I've gotten maybe 2 tickets in my 22yrs driving/riding, but I hung with the crowds of lead-footers/modders...who rarely got tickets that stuck

 

[bmw675]

is it a ticket or a fix-it ticket. i thought lights, tint, ect... were just 'fix-it' tickets. if so, change the tail out, get the ticket dismissed, and put it back on.

 

[Spunky99]

is it a ticket or a fix-it ticket. i thought lights, tint, ect... were just 'fix-it' tickets. if so, change the tail out, get the ticket dismissed, and put it back on.

LOL....I used to do that all the time...$25.00 and get it signed off....No court...

The cop didn't like all that steel wool packing shooting out of my muffler the last time I got a noise ticket....Gotta keep the throttle limited....

 

[Roaddawg]

Ok, let's clear some things up here. First of all, the Trooper (and local police as well) can enforce the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety regulations (FMVSS No. 108 also known as: 49 CFR Part 571.108) because the State of Washington has accepted the use of the Federal guideline as the law on vehicle equipment, unless State law restricts it further (kinda like California's smog laws). Here's the info for Washington: WAC 204-21-230: Lighting equipment prohibited.

So, basically, if the Washington State vehicle code does not have stricter laws on certain vehicle items (i.e. the distance between your turn signals), then they revert to the guidelines of the Federal standards (9 inches between turn signals) as State law. You guys get it?

Its like the DOT light bulb issue. DOT is the Federal certification of the bulb meeting DOT guidelines. Its not a State thing at all. But, if you put in a non DOT approved light bulb in (like those HID look bulbs), its technically a violation of the Federal guidelines (and probably a violation of State law too if they are blue tinted ones). So, its illegal under State law BECAUSE they (the State) ADOPTED the Federal guidelines to be the State law as well...basically in laymans terms.

I think if the Trooper stopped you for that JUST to 'check you out', that's one thing, if he's just that bent on illegal turn signals, there's better things to waste time on...like finding drunks or other things that are more unsafe to drivers than your turn signals, but whatever, he's just black and white on enforcing the law. The best thing for you to do is change it back to make it 'legal', take it down to the local Trooper office and get it signed off as fixed, bring proof to court and show the Judge you put it back to conform to law. They will probably dismiss the ticket and just charge you the court fees. And like others have said, ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse. But, compliance with it before court may give you a chance.

Also, for those of you in California...same rules apply here. If you look in the Vehicle Code, there is nothing about distance between the turn signals. It's because it falls under the Federal guidelines as well.

Vehicle Code sections that give authority { Federal adoption section: (26103(b)}: California Vehicle Code Division 12 Chapter 2 Article 16 Table of Contents

Oregon State: Driver and Motor Vehicle Services_735_108

And, if your really bored (or can't sleep), here is the full Federal guidelines: FMVSS No. 108 Full Text

 

[cbzdel]

So is there a problem with my contesting RCW 46.37.200 which I was written up for? Reading though it, it sounds like I am not breaking any law.. So the judge would have to know what the DOT regulations for motorcycle turn signals are and re-write the ticket?

I can always buy turn signals and add them then, remove them and just say I fixed the problem I guess as well..

 

[Roaddawg]

So is there a problem with my contesting RCW 46.37.200 which I was written up for? Reading though it, it sounds like I am not breaking any law.. So the judge would have to know what the DOT regulations for motorcycle turn signals are and re-write the ticket?

I can always buy turn signals and add them then, remove them and just say I fixed the problem I guess as well..

Your still breaking the law ...The way they see it is you have NO rear turn signals because there are none that are legally mounted there (the nine inch rule). Basically, it falls under this particular section of section 46.37.200 and a combination of the Federal nine-inches section (at least that's how I'm interpreting these laws...stuipid legal jargon...):

"(2) Any vehicle may be equipped and when required under RCW 46.37.070(2) shall be equipped with electric turn signals which shall indicate an intention to turn by flashing lights showing to the front and rear of a vehicle or on a combination of vehicles on the side of the vehicle or combination toward which the turn is to be made."

A more generalized section he could have also written you for instead could have been 46.37.010, but the .200 seems to be more specific on which piece of equipment it is:

"RCW 46.37.010

(1) It is a traffic infraction for any person to drive or move, or for a vehicle owner to cause or knowingly permit to be driven or moved, on any highway any vehicle or combination of vehicles that:

(b) Is not at all times equipped with such lamps and other equipment in proper working condition and adjustment as required by this chapter or by rules issued by the Washington state patrol;

(c) Contains any parts in violation of this chapter or rules issued by the Washington state patrol."


Section .200 does say that "Turn signal lamps may, but need not be, incorporated in other lamps on the vehicle.", so I would leave your integrated taillight on, put on a cheap set of turn signals and get it signed off. What you do with the signals after its signed off is up to you. Make sure you have reflectors on as well, otherwise they're gonna bang you for that as well.

When it comes down to it, your gonna have to get the bike back in 'legal' condition, get it signed off (or however they do it up there in WA), and then clear it through the courts. After that, you can go back to the way you had it, but risk getting another ticket again. It's the dice you roll!

 

[Spunky99]

So save the stock parts and if you get a fix it ticket, put them on, get it signed off and pay the fine.
Then you can go back to doing the evil illegal modifications again...