Colorado shooting...


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Deathdiesel

New Member
God thats a bad situation in general. Illegalizing guns wont solve anything btw whoever is arguing that. Its very hard to say an armed civillian could have solved this too. Anyone here ever been in tear gas? Its absolutely awful stuff, good luck attempting to even pull your gun up after beeing through it.

Am i missing parts to this story?
 
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r0ar

New Member
Deathdiesel said:
God thats a bad situation in general. Illegalizing guns wont solve anything btw whoever is arguing that. Its very hard to say an armed civillian could have solved this too. Anyone here ever been in tear gas? Its absolutely awful stuff, good luck attempting to even pull your gun up after beeing through it.

Am i missing parts to this story?
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Yeah I doubt a CC would make a difference for this situation but I will say its made me think about it in general
 
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BKP

New Member
An armed citizen, in the movie theater, could *not* have resolved this particular situation... and worse, could have exacerbated the situation.

That having been said, I'm a both a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment, as well as a long term CC holder. I *always* carry when I ride (since I more often than not find myself in questionable areas, thanks to a piss-poor sense of direction).
And, *that* having been said, I've *never* so much as "de-concealed" it, much less had to deploy it defensively.

I couldn't agree more with those above that stressed *learning* how to use it, learning about awareness, learning about the ramifications of just drawing it... It's a huge privilege... It's a huge responsibility...

However, without a gas mask, and a way to see through the smoke well enough to discern friend from foe, in that theater, all a reaction from an armed citizen could have done was cause further damage...

My prayers to the friends and family of the victims...
 
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Marthy

World Most Bad A$$ 6R
Elite Member
I don't carry but seriously thinking about it for the near future. I can defend myself to a limit... but as I get older I might get the target of younger bad guy. I will feel more secure knowing I can protect me and my family.

On the other hands... I know there's still a lot of conflict and war around the world. But I like to think the only reason we never enter WWIII is nuke. Almost everyone have some... and everyone is scare as $hit to pull the trigger because they all know there will be no winner! I see the same with guns.

I might be wrong... but thats the way I see things.
 
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III PETE

New Member
My wife always gave me crap whenever I carried (legal CC) to the movies. I told her this morning that I don't want to hear it anymore.

I can't imagine the pain and anguish these people and their families are feeling. I hope God gives them peace.
 
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DakinechicK

Active Member
Husband came in this morning while I was sleeping and told me something bad had happened then explained to me the details. Very scary!! Unbelievable really.....

We live about 5 miles from this theater and in a very nice neighborhood/area/town which I always thought and is super safe. Its pretty much as suburban as you can get. My point? This type of crime can happen anywhere unfortunately with the right sicko around. :mad:

I knew of one friend for sure going to the showing of Batman, but couldn't get a ticket at the theater, so ended up about 30 miles away to one where he could get in. (Thank Goodness!!).

Prayers go out to all involved!!! I can't believe it. Very VERY sad indeed. :(
 
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MNGreg

waiting out winter
Elite Member
DakinechicK said:
I knew of one friend for sure going to the showing of Batman, but couldn't get a ticket at the theater, so ended up about 30 miles away to one where he could get in. (Thank Goodness!!).

Prayers go out to all involved!!! I can't believe it. Very VERY sad indeed. :(
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Agreed!!! THANK GOODNESS THEY ENDED UP HAVING TO go elsewhere instead!!!!!!
 
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danieljardim

New Member
jacobdahl said:
I usually stay away from expressing strong personal opinions on this forum. I respect the opinion of every member here, and I did not join to argue with people. In this case, though, my feelings on this subject are too strong to keep my mouth shut.
First, my deepest sympathy to all involved in this senseless tragedy. I cannot imagine the pain of losing a loved one to such a random and pointless crime. I cannot even imagine the pain of surviving this event. I sincerely hope that those affected by this are able, one day, to lead what resembles a normal life again.
Now, to the gun advocates: Seriouly? In a dark, teargassed theatre with people running everywhere screaming, and shots ringing out, you're going to stand up, identify the shooter, evaluate his armour situation, and then pick him off with a prefectly placed shot in the neck right in-between his vest and helmet? Or clip his thigh and put him on the ground? Oh yeah, and with a handgun? Please. I support the notion of protecting oneself in an emergency, but appempting this shot is plain reckless. It's a panic reaction which has a slim possibility of being effective and a large possibility of contributing further to the chaos and confusion.
I know this is a polarizing topic, and I'm going to take a ton of crap for this, but really. Think about this honestly and tell me if you could make that shot without a chance of killing an innocnet bystander and adding to the chaos and tragedy. If you can, you're already taking that shot as part of your job, as the best SWAT marksman in the world. The notion of a civillian attempting that shot is reckless.
Now, you stand up and attempt this shot, and a split second later, someone else does the same, only they see you, arm outstretched, blasting away before they see the psycho who started all this. Guess what happens? At least your grieving friends and family can call you a hero through their tears at your funeral.
Multiply this by 3, or 7, or 22 "heroes". How many kill each other before the shooting stops? What happens when the cops show up in the middle of this gunfight? How do they know who to shoot?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this is mine: a handgun is a weapon with one practical purpose, which is killing people. Law enforcement are the only people who have any reason whatsoever to posess one. Part of their job is learning all of the proper moves in these tactical situations. Not a weekend hobby, a career. It shoud be a serious crime to have one if you're not required to have one as a part of your duties. Makes it simple. Posess a handgun, go to jail for 25-life, before you even shoot someone with it. Makes it a lot easier for the cops to sort out who is the bad guy.
By increasing the tolerance of firearms in a society, you are inviting more crime with firearms. Making handguns illegal will not eliminate this type of crime. Look at what happened in Norway. However, by making handguns less tolerable in society, people will have a less casual attitude toward them. For example, when I was a teen, loads of people in my school smoked pot. It was considered "cool". People openly did it, and openly admitted it. People constantly asked if I wanted to partake, tried to convince me it was harmless, encouraged me to try it, etc... Cocaine, however, was regarded as a serious drug. Sure, people did it, but they kept to themselves. Cocaine was a rumour. Nobody was walking up at lunch and offering it up.
Young people see "gun culture" and they want to emmulate it. They see "gangsters" in music videos and movies and think it's cool. They want to be cool. Change the message. Guns aren't cool, they kill people. They ruin families. They take young people full of potential and turn them instantly in to meat. They make orphans. A gun is the tool that caused someone's wife to not come home last night. Someone's sister laid awake all night last night, grappling with the shok of knowing she'll never, ever, see her brother again. Change the message. Make handguns illegal, and portray them as the instruments of terror they are. The psychos will always be out there, but this will push them further in to the shadows.
If you have a notion to go on a killing spree, and everyone is walking around with a gun, you blend in. If you're the only one with a gun, people notice. If handguns were illegal, there would have been more opportunities along the path the gun took from manufacture to this psycho's hand to intercept it. If handguns were illegal, it would have been harder for this psycho to even get one. It might not have prevented this crime, BUT IT MIGHT HAVE PREVENTED THIS CRIME. It's better odds that a handgun ban would have prevented this crime than a cowboy in the theatre with his six-shooter locked and loaded.
Change the message. Guns are not cool. They are not even as effective a defense tool as many people think. The solution to people shooting people is not more people shooting people.
You want to be John Wayne out there and kill some bad guys? Go down to your local police station and hand in a resume.
I did not write this post to incite an argument. I did not write this post to incite debate. I wrote this post in hopes that someone, even one person, might see my point and join me in trying to help reduce gun violence in the method which I truly believe will work. I respect everyone's honest opinion, and did not write this post do discredit those who have a different opinion than I do. I expect there will be posts which disagree with my position, and I respect those opinions. I will not engage in an argument to defend this opinion. This post makes my opinion and the reasons behind it quite plain, and I respectfully decline to argue about it.
The real topic here is the victims. To them, my sympathy. Whatever the solution, I hope as a society we all make a concentrated and honest effort to reduce these types of crime in the future.
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I'm with you. I don't like guns, I don't have a gun and probably never will. I respect all my friends that have one.

I'd rather have japanese swords. They're sharp, beautiful and make nice displays at home :) :thumbup:
 
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Chevyfazer

New Member
DakinechicK said:
Husband came in this morning while I was sleeping and told me something bad had happened then explained to me the details. Very scary!! Unbelievable really.....

We live about 5 miles from this theater and in a very nice neighborhood/area/town which I always thought and is super safe. Its pretty much as suburban as you can get. My point? This type of crime can happen anywhere unfortunately with the right sicko around. :mad:

I knew of one friend for sure going to the showing of Batman, but couldn't get a ticket at the theater, so ended up about 30 miles away to one where he could get in. (Thank Goodness!!).

Prayers go out to all involved!!! I can't believe it. Very VERY sad indeed. :(
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Damn...
I know it's probably a very sensitive subject right now out there but since you live so close have you herd anymore details?
 
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DakinechicK

Active Member
I pretty much know the same details as all of you guys. The local news is covering it however, so I'm probably getting a few more bits and pieces, but it's pretty much the same stuff over and over again. The good news (if there is any) is not as many people died as previously thought. I think it went from 15 to 12. Seen video from peoples cell phones on the local news too which I'm not sure you guys have seen yet. Very scary and chaotic.
 
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Wolfpack

New Member
I have had training on deadly force, Advanced defense courses and i honestly would drop the Dbag. even with a vest on a couple shots will slow him down enough to get a clean hit. thats why clips have 10+ rounds. this is a situation that REQUIRES THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE. I would feel like a coward if i let someone kill people right in front of me and i had the means and ability to do something about it.!




This is what the guy had in his trunk
 

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MustGoFaster

New Member
Oh! Yeah! Let's advocate gun control! That'll solve all our problems! While we're at it, let's advocate weather control! And disease control! And motorvehicle accident control! And falling-down-the-stairs control!

Get the picture yet? Guns exist. End of story. Trying to limit their use and who can have them is like trying to plug a dam with a wad of gum. Get a clue people, the guns are out there. Like so many others have stated, it all boils down to personal responsiblity. *He's* responsible for carrying out that horrible act. He could have just as easily tossed a home-made bomb in that theater. Laws cannot stop a human being dedicated to a cause.

My heart truly goes out to the victims of this horrible atrocity. I'm sorry we live in a world filled with violent human beings, but I want the ability to at least *try* to protect myself from them. Am I a professional? No. Am I a member of the government? No. (Still find it scary that so many people want to entrust the entirety of their lives to complete strangers. Maybe I'm just cynical and paranoid, but I sure wouldn't place *all* of my safety in the hands of strangers. Security starts with YOU.) Am I going to trust in the fact that if someone breaks into my home, total strangers are going to come and rescue me? NO.

They have guns, so *I* need guns. Until the day comes when every single gun on this planet is destroyed, we need to take measures to secure ourselves and the people we love. And no, I doubt CC would have made a shred of difference in this case, but I'm sick to death of the witch hunts that come out of some psycho shooting a place up. How do you turn some psycho with tear gas, armor, and a gun into Joe Everyday-home-owner? Cut from different cloths, people. And you say, "Well what about psych evals, and tests, and blah blah blah?" Doesn't matter. You can't control chaos. People will find the guns, the bombs, etc. This is the world we live in. People have been trying to control violence since the inception of mankind. Think it's gonna happen in an age where we have the most horrible weapons of mass destruction ever created?

I'm not sitting around unarmed and waiting to find out.
 
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danieljardim

New Member
DakinechicK said:
I knew of one friend for sure going to the showing of Batman, but couldn't get a ticket at the theater, so ended up about 30 miles away to one where he could get in. (Thank Goodness!!).

Prayers go out to all involved!!! I can't believe it. Very VERY sad indeed. :(
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He must be feeling really sick right now. Once I missed the bus to my cousins house and had to wait almost an hour for the next one. Well, the bus I missed flipped on the road and went down the cliff and killed a bunch of people. I couldn't go to sleep for a long time having the image of the bus down the cliff up side down.
 
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dart1963

Super Moderator
Elite Member
Wolfpack said:
I have had training on deadly force, Advanced defense courses and i honestly would drop the Dbag. even with a vest on a couple shots will slow him down enough to get a clean hit. thats why clips have 10+ rounds.
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most clips are 5 rounds.... magazines however have gotten huge over the years...

I haven't had much training, but I'd be hesitant to shoot through a crowd after being gassed





just bustin' on ya... :)


I feel really bad for the victims and their families... we still remember the VT shooting and that was four hours away from us, but many of our local students wind up there. There are just some sick individuals out there.
 
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DakinechicK

Active Member
I apologize. I thought this was a different theater all morning - one just a few miles up the road from us which in fact it is not. This Aurora theater is about 15 miles from us. A little further away than initially thought, however I still know that area. Sad.
 
alaskanflyboy

alaskanflyboy

Premium Member

alaskanflyboy

alaskanflyboy

Premium Member
Since I mentioned the article, I figured I might as well share it. I'm unsure the true author as it's been attributed to several authors.

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society. But, a firearm makes it easier for an armed mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier, works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply would not work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act!
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