To ethanol or not to ethanol

[Gunn4r]

All the stations around me have Ethanol, its sad. I get crap gas mileage with it compared to non ethanol. I've also heard it can be really hard on your fuel lines, seals and such. Dunno if thats true or not but I know alcohol is corrosive on rubbers and plastics so I guess it kinda makes sense.

 

[dndfindley]

There is not one valid argument for ethanol. It takes a lot of energy to produce and it is less efficient than gasoline. On top of that the production of corn or switchgrass takes up valuable land that would otherwise be used for food or grain production. Notice how the price of dairy products and meat has gone up? Not all of that is due to normal inflation. Ethanol production is causing us here in the U.S. to pay more at the supermarket and we get nothing in return. It is not causing us to be less dependent on foreign oil. The only thing that will do that is if we "drill baby drill!" We have plenty of oil here to last for decades to come if only we were allowed to go get it. Two other reasons to lobby for the end of ethanol production is that it is causing hunger in many countries around the world, starvation in some, and the only people benefitting are the corn and switchgrass producers and select politicians who are making millions off ethanol. David

 

[dcBear78]

Ethanol provides worse fuel economy because it contain less complex carbons, or smaller carbon chains. Less carbon, less energy per gallon. Thus the drop in fuel economy. As for power, if you have an O2 sensor and your ECO can adjust for it, the system will simply use more fuel for specific mix of air simply because it needs to in order to maintain 14.7:1 ratio. Thus you don't have a loss of power on cars that run E10/E85, they simply dump more fuel in to compensate. As for our bikes, there is no O2 sensor, so I dont know how it's figuring out that there is less carbon to be mated to the Oxygen, so my guess is that it's running LEAN. That can cause your bike to run hotter. I would need to know more about the FI system on the bike and how it works.

That's interesting? The Aussie bikes do have an O2 sensor in the exhaust. But I was told by my salesperson not to bother with anything more than standard fuel (which is 91) cause it wouldn't make use of the better fuel. In my state e10 is optional, but I believe NSW has it in all standard fuel now, so it will slowly spread here too.

 

[Chucker]

I recently read, either in Cycle World or Carguide (can't remember), that there are a few serious issues with ethanol.

1. It is an effective solvent, so it will free up any dirt or varnish in your fuel system and can plug fuel filters. Shouldn't be a problem on our newish FZ6Rs.

2. It is corrosive and can eventually lead to degradation of fuel lines and seals, causing them to crack and fail.

3. It absorbs water and suffers from "phase separation", so can lead to a water in fuel problem if left in the tank for too long. I would assume this means that you should never leave ethanol fuel in your tank while in storage as you could end up with a rust problem in your tank, and the water will end up in the bottom of your tank = not too good for that initial start up.

 

[kevin8198]

Also in WA all fuel has ethanol, no choice:thumbup:

 

[cavcuz05]

Try to avoid it but when i need gas i pull into the first gas station and most of the time all have ethanol

 

[Sparkxx1]

I'm never really paid attention but now that I know about the whole ethanol issue, does the gas station just have signs on them saying 10% ethanol or whatnot?

 

[yellowfz]

Around here no choice .
Some tuners carry a Ethanol test kit with them to see what percentage they are getting , it varies 6%-10% .
14.7 gas stoich , 14.12 is E10 stoich , E85 is like 9.7 stoich , E85 makes good power , high flash point (no knock) so you can run loads of timing and high compression , just have to dump a lot of fuel , oh and it is 105 octane .
O2 sensors switch back and forth to maintain Stoich or Lambda 1 , E10 will work with the O2 sensors range of switching . E10 sucks for carbed motors .
E85 flex fuel cars do more than just have larger injectors , the timing is altered as well as air/fuel along with 20 or so other tables .
Water is a major thing with E Fuels , they do attract water . Methanol will hurt rubber but not Ethanol , and the varnish thing is true , Ethanol does act as a solvent on it .
Most cars and trucks I have tuned were way rich in PE (power enrichment) mode (no power to rich not lean ) , 12.6 to 13.2 AFR makes good power in a NA (natural aspirated) motor .
E85 make for a good race fuel .
I wish we had more access to the ECU on our bikes , timing , air , we have fuel in a way that we can lean or rich the injectors (Power Commander) but still want more control over the ECU .
Just think Moonshiners knew of this years ago , think the Kennedy's .
My $0.02 on Ethanol .

 

[stuna]

I personally hate ethanol, but I use it, and it won't hurt your bike. After a long period of time, it can be hard on rubber parts that it comes in contact with, but most likely, your bike will be worn out before that even happens.

I have tracked fuel mileage in my Chevy Silverado, and my bike, using ethanol, and without ethanol. Fuel mileage drops using ethanol. I am not a chemist, but I think it burns either hotter, or quicker. It is supposed to add power, but without a dyno, I don't notice the additional power. I know that pulling a trailer with my truck, ethanol=6 mpg, non-ethanol= 11.2 mpg.

I would never run E85 in my bike though. My truck is set up to run on it, but unless the price for E85 is half price of other fuel, or more, it is not worth it. I never run E85 pulling a trailer either, or I would have to fill up every 120 miles....lol

i agree . i dont like the stuff , when i can get the straight stuff . they say hoy did you put that much in a mini van . nope cans for the bike , i dont like e10 . dont matter . ck with a small engine shop . they will tell you some story's, yes my bike gets better mpgs without it as do many cars

 

[stuna]

In Gas-Powered World, Ethanol Stirs Up Complaints - NYTimes.com

Ethanol and Boat Motors Don’t Mix*|*Facts About Ethanol

Is fuel with an increased level of ethanol a problem for small gas engines?

 

[dndfindley]

I recently read, either in Cycle World or Carguide (can't remember), that there are a few serious issues with ethanol.

1. It is an effective solvent, so it will free up any dirt or varnish in your fuel system and can plug fuel filters. Shouldn't be a problem on our newish FZ6Rs.

2. It is corrosive and can eventually lead to degradation of fuel lines and seals, causing them to crack and fail.

3. It absorbs water and suffers from "phase separation", so can lead to a water in fuel problem if left in the tank for too long. I would assume this means that you should never leave ethanol fuel in your tank while in storage as you could end up with a rust problem in your tank, and the water will end up in the bottom of your tank = not too good for that initial start up.

As I stated in my previous post there is not one valid argument for ethanol. David

 

[stuna]

Ethanol fuel damage - not on wing - GL1800Riders

 

[yellowfz]

As I stated in my previous post there is not one valid argument for ethanol. David

1. Makes the Farmers and Commodity Traders richer !
2. Sales of Sta-bil increased .
Wonder if you could make a separator to separate the Ethanol from the gas and just use the pure gas ? 2 gallons would yield 1.8 gallons .
If they use Genetically Modified Corn for Ethanol , which is not intended for human consumption and grows faster and more yield , why does food prices go up , I mean they are not using food grade corn .
Why do we have Flex Fuel Vehicles here yet no E85 can be found ?

 

[dndfindley]

1. Makes the Farmers and Commodity Traders richer !
2. Sales of Sta-bil increased .
Wonder if you could make a separator to separate the Ethanol from the gas and just use the pure gas ? 2 gallons would yield 1.8 gallons .
If they use Genetically Modified Corn for Ethanol , which is not intended for human consumption and grows faster and more yield , why does food prices go up , I mean they are not using food grade corn .
Why do we have Flex Fuel Vehicles here yet no E85 can be found ?

Makes no difference if the corn produced is for human consumption or not. Corn is also used as livestock feed. Take it away and suddenly ranchers/farmers are having to pay more for feed and hence they will have to charge more for their products. When stuff rolls downhill guess who is at the bottom? Correct - the consumer. Another downside to using corn for ethanol even though it is not intended for human consumption is that thousands of acres of land that was once used for food production is now being used for ethanol production. Ethanol is a product that is not needed and it does not lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Only domestic oil production will do that along with a massive nuclear power plant building program. We have more coal in the U.S. than any other country on earth and we should be using it to the fullest. David

 

[pauly69]

Most stations around here all have ethanol. So if I luck out and find one that doesn't have it, great, if I go to a station that has it, oh well. Its only "up to 10%" and that is within tolerance per the owners manual so I don't care.

Well here in canada we have the choice and I choose not to but in your case I would just add a 1/4 can of octane booster it will help