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Two Brothers Exhaust... What I need?

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Top1Dog525

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Hello, I have a question and hopefully someone can answer it for me. I'm looking at getting the carbon TB Exhaust System and was wondering if after installing will I need to have my ECI re-mapped. Also, in the future I will be putting in a K&N Air Filter as well, would yall recommend getting the Juice Box as well? I guess all-n-all I am asking when will I need (if at all) to have my ECI re-mapped and would you recommend the Juice Box. Any help/suggestions/comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
You definately need a power commander or juice box to get the full hp gain from a full exhaust (custom map). As for the air filter, a lot of people will claim it adds hp, but any of the dyno charts I've seen don't show an improvement with the K&N filters over stock.
 
Pizz said:
You definately need a power commander or juice box to get the full hp gain from a full exhaust (custom map). As for the air filter, a lot of people will claim it adds hp, but any of the dyno charts I've seen don't show an improvement with the K&N filters over stock.
Click to expand...

are there some filter dyno charts out there for our bike, I dont think i have seen those..

In stock form I am not sure about gains, I actually think there are some losses on the low end (from the butt dyno)

But I bet with a PC dyno tuned completely stock then again with a K&N I am thinking there may be 1 or 2 hp to gain??

Really I just got mine because it last forever :thumbup:
 
Thanks for the quick replies everyone. Ok, so if I get the juice box with it then no need to go have remapped, thats what the juice box does? My understanding of engines and the ECI is very limited, so forgive my idiocy (I used a fancy word :D) on the subject.
 
A friend of mine has been tuning bikes for over ten years, he owns a dealership, has tuned for many professional riders, and has not seen any gains from a mesh type filter in all those years of tuning.

Save your money, it's too hard to come by as it is...

"I have K&N filters in a couple of my engines, but most I keep the stock filter. After almost a decade of dyno tuning I have yet to see an actual gain on a modern sportsbike from a low restriction filter and often a tiny loss. I assume this due to a diminished resonant effect in the airbox since the filter "backflows" air as well as it does let it into the box to began with. Resonant frequency is determined by several variables including total airbox volume which is the volume from the filter to the intake valves of the motor. Now exceptions to this general rule are made for cruisers, especially Yamaha cruisers with their TINY little air filter, replacing it with a low restriction unit definitely makes power. The SXV and RXV are another example of anything or nothing being better than stock.

I suppose the thing we have to remember is that we do not care at all about big "flow" numbers, we care about charge trapping efficiency. This is what makes power, bigger holes and less restrictive filters will definitely win on a flow bench, we are not driving/riding flow benches.

In general sportbike airboxes seem to be very well designed and thought out from the factory. The Honda CBR1000RR is no exception but this was the first and only time I have ever had to actually read the instructions to install an aftermarket intake filter....
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Top Dog,

When talking about a custom map for your bike, it always involves an aftermarket product (power commander, juicebox, etc). I am not aware of a stock bike that can be remapped without factory work.

All of the aftermarket products have custom maps for different exhaust installations for each bike. You simply download them and install them. For example, Power Commander (PCM V) has a custom map for the M4 exhaust (don't have the Two Brothers yet) installed on the FZ6R. You would buy the exhaust and PCM V and download the map to put in the PCM V. If you put a Two Brothers on, you would need to go to a custom tuning center and pay a couple hundred dollars to have them build you a map.

Juicebox is a Two brothers product that comes with the Two Brothers map.
 
I have a Two Bros and the Yamaha GYTR air filter with no Juice Box or Power Commander. Aside from some popping when releasing the throttle to decelerate (which there is a quick an easy fix for) I don't have any problems. Granted if you do have a Juice Box or Power Commander it may unleash some extra HP that I'm not getting, but it is not a necessity.
 
There's enough info out there to determine best performance additions. Exhaust, Tune/ECI, Air, in that order for engine performance. Go all the way, half way, no way,..........( Then there are the suspension considerations,.......after that the controls,........tires,........one off customizations........then you go get a liter bike and do it again!) Ha!!!
 
I'd recommend a Power Commander over the Juice Box and Juice Box like products. The Juice Box allows you to ONLY add fuel, not take away fuel. It also only makes mass fuel changes over three very vague areas. It does not use a map and the Two Brothers tuning solution is to "play" with it, not exactly a precise process.

With a Power Commander V you can use the supplied maps, but as others have said get a custom map created. The PCV offers much finer and controlled level of tuning. You can adjust by 250 rpm increments and by 10 throttle positions. You can also adjust the fuel from a -100% to +350% with in each cell of the map. On a typical map that is about 400+ cells.

Even with a stock bike you can really dial in the throttle response with a good map.
 
Hellgate said:
I'd recommend a Power Commander over the Juice Box and Juice Box like products. The Juice Box allows you to ONLY add fuel, not take away fuel. It also only makes mass fuel changes over three very vague areas. It does not use a map and the Two Brothers tuning solution is to "play" with it, not exactly a precise process.

With a Power Commander V you can use the supplied maps, but as others have said get a custom map created. The PCV offers much finer and controlled level of tuning. You can adjust by 250 rpm increments and by 10 throttle positions. You can also adjust the fuel from a -100% to +350% with in each cell of the map. On a typical map that is about 400+ cells.

Even with a stock bike you can really dial in the throttle response with a good map.
Click to expand...

X2 for the PCV seeing as you basically went to a straight pipe you will need to correct that back pressure...if not you may be running somewhat rich a little at best...but that little back pressure could cause slight damge over time...just my .02
 
cavcuz05 said:
X2 for the PCV seeing as you basically went to a straight pipe you will need to correct that back pressure...if not you may be running somewhat rich a little at best...but that little back pressure could cause slight damge over time...just my .02
Click to expand...

My understanding actually is opposite. A less restrictive exhaust decreases back pressure, allowing freer airflow, causing a lean situation. This leads to excess temp at combustion, burning pistons, rings, etc. Stock bikes also tend to run lean from factory for emission readings. Get some info from a good mechanic or even the customer service folks at 2Bros. (I did the dyno tune with an experienced mechanic after all my engine mods.)
 
joloy133 said:
My understanding actually is opposite. A less restrictive exhaust decreases back pressure, allowing freer airflow, causing a lean situation. This leads to excess temp at combustion, burning pistons, rings, etc. Stock bikes also tend to run lean from factory for emission readings. Get some info from a good mechanic or even the customer service folks at 2Bros. (I did the dyno tune with an experienced mechanic after all my engine mods.)
Click to expand...

ur right i was thinkin that dont know why i said that:thumbup:
 
PuRpl3_Dr4nK said:
I have a Two Bros and the Yamaha GYTR air filter with no Juice Box or Power Commander. Aside from some popping when releasing the throttle to decelerate (which there is a quick an easy fix for) I don't have any problems. Granted if you do have a Juice Box or Power Commander it may unleash some extra HP that I'm not getting, but it is not a necessity.
Click to expand...

Hey I have a TBR and wondering how you get rid of the popping when releasing the throttle
 
MiltonDorkenhoff said:
Kind of a basic question - what does a map do? I assume it the changes fuel/air mixture, maybe the timing, etc, but thought I'd ask.
Click to expand...

If done correctly, it smooths out the power curve by optimizing the fuel/air ratio based on the rpm and throttle position.
 
the popping is likely because of the smog system, it injects air into the exhaust to burn up leftover fuel. You can probably eliminate it, I haven't looked much into the fz smog setup, but on my r1 I had to plug the opening on the airbox, and install some blockoff plates from graves. took about an hour to do and wasn't very difficult if you're not scared to take stuff apart.
 
Appreciate it!! Im going to check this out so I can get rid of this loud popping at the light!!!
 
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