Snell VS ECE

[Fizzi6ergal]

So, my Tucker Rocky Rep was in my shop the other day and we were talking about the difference between Snell and ECE approved helmets. Mind, that everyone has their different opinions of these 2 approved helmets. Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one. But I never really knew the difference between the 2 and how they were tested to deserve their ratings. So he showed me this awesome website off of Arai's website.
RX-7 GP
Definitely check this video out of how they test for both ECE and Snell. It's quite interesting. It makes me think about the type of helmet I want next.

 

[VRIIClubby]

nice link, I wonder what those no name bluetooth helmets are certified under?

 

[latony007]

They are DOT certified which is required to I think even sell them in the US, certainly to be legal when riding. I don't know what the difference is between the European standard mentioned and the US. im sure its easily findable though.

 

[BKP]

I've been told by a dealer (so I can't say he's a primary source) that more manufacturers are moving to ECE, simply because SNELL requires an un-Godly number of helmets to be submitted for testing...

Becoming almost prohibitively expensive..

 

[Detrich]

Good web site for crash test data.

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/

 

[Fizzi6ergal]

I've been told by a dealer (so I can't say he's a primary source) that more manufacturers are moving to ECE, simply because SNELL requires an un-Godly number of helmets to be submitted for testing...

Becoming almost prohibitively expensive..

Yeah, and the fact that ECE only tests in specific spots, so it's easier for the manufacture to "build" the helmet up in those specific spots so they'll pass.

 

[VRIIClubby]

I've been told by a dealer (so I can't say he's a primary source) that more manufacturers are moving to ECE, simply because SNELL requires an un-Godly number of helmets to be submitted for testing...

Becoming almost prohibitively expensive..

rings very true, more than likely why so many helmets arent available in Oz.
Whats the point in submitting say, 100 helmets to pass whatever the certification is we use here to only sell 500? pretty pointless.

but in saying that, I want MY head in the Helmet a company hasnt compromised on, I would pay an extra $500 or more for one that has passed more rigorous testing than the others.
Would you trust a company that moves to a different testing/certification becuase its easier to pass? :facepalm:

 

[BKP]

This thread got me very interested in the entire standards debate, so I spent a few hours last night researching and reading this topic, and what I found out was very enlightening.

I have four helmets, with different ratings, but all on the higher end of the mfg'r line, so it was that much more interesting to read.
My lids:
Bell RS-1 - DOT and SNELL (my favorite)
Arai Signet-Q: DOT and SNELL
Scorpion exo 1100: DOT and ECE
Shoei Neotec: DOT

The SNELL rating, highly touted in the US (and required for racing helmets here) is apparently not necessarily the last word in helmet safety. The Pre-2012 SNELL ratings (known as SNELL M2010) are, in many cases, considered almost dangerous, since the testing included holding up under double impact in the same spot. This goes against current thinking that the EPS liner needs to be *soft* as opposed to rigid (to act as somewhat of a 'crumple zone'), so as not to transfer impact energy to your dome. SNELL M2010 addressed this to some degree, however, if you're interested in more of the story, here are a couple of the articles I read which were interesting:

Talks about the problems of SNELL (pre-M2010, which was sold up until last year):
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/automobiles/27SNELL.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

Talks about why the author of the above article GOT FIRED for writing it (not that we didn't know sponsors don't have clout):
How The Truth About Motorcycle Helmets Got A Journalist Fired

More info on standard differences:
Helmet Standards Throwdown - Snell vs DOT vs ECE R22-05

Motorcycle Helmet Safety Standards

A final word: I also found multiple references to what was hailed as a *very* complete article on comparisons done by the MSF organization (which was not necessarily generous towards SNELL). However, it has since seemed to be "mysteriously" pulled.

EDIT: Keep in mind, both Arai and Shoei (among others) are heavily invested in the SNELL moniker on most of their helmets. So, look at any video, website, or testimonial from their respective sites or sponsorship, in regard to SNELL, with a little skepticism...

P.S. SNELL M2015 is set to roll out next year... Question is what changes are made that obsolete the current M2010?

 

[Detrich]

It's a tough subject. And, I think actual lab crash test ratings probably carry more weight than the labelled safety ratings?

At the end of the day, always wearing a properly fitted, full face DOT helmet is prolly the basic starting point to head protection. Anything beyond that becomes the "what type of accident and how bad" discussion- which is endless.

DOT is manufacturer self-tested compliance. Snell testing requirements are expensive, and chances are if a helmet sustains the type of damage required to pass Snell, then u would likely be dead anyways from "other bodily injury" not involving the head that would likely be consistently fatal even without that head impact.

Currently only Sharp org in the UK does testing across all brands. Notice that expensive brands don't all necessarily pass with flying colors and that some brands and some models have a higher rating than others.

At the motorcycle show, I jokingly asked the HJC rep why their lids rated so poorly in crash tests. All he could say is that if Jorge Lorenzo & Ben Spies can crash at 200MPH in an RPHA lid then it's safe for everyone else.

Although I respect that point of view, MotoGP riders are not really dealing with impacting trucks, SUV's, cars, park benches, guard rails, telephone booths, buildings etc. like we do on the street. I don't believe speed alone can determine a helmet's safety.

There are plenty of YouTube videos of guys taking hammers to different brand Moto helmets. Surprisingly the cheap HJC one that was hammered repeatedly at the crown actually held up while others cracked. lol

After seeing that i honestly don't what to believe anymore.

 

[JT]

This thread got me very interested in the entire standards debate, so I spent a few hours last night researching and reading this topic, and what I found out was very enlightening.

I have four helmets, with different ratings, but all on the higher end of the mfg'r line, so it was that much more interesting to read.
My lids:
Bell RS-1 - DOT and SNELL (my favorite)
Arai Signet-Q: DOT and SNELL
Scorpion exo 1100: DOT and ECE
Shoei Neotec: DOT

The SNELL rating, highly touted in the US (and required for racing helmets here) is apparently not necessarily the last word in helmet safety. The Pre-2012 SNELL ratings (known as SNELL M2010) are, in many cases, considered almost dangerous, since the testing included holding up under double impact in the same spot. This goes against current thinking that the EPS liner needs to be *soft* as opposed to rigid (to act as somewhat of a 'crumple zone'), so as not to transfer impact energy to your dome. SNELL M2010 addressed this to some degree, however, if you're interested in more of the story, here are a couple of the articles I read which were interesting:

Talks about the problems of SNELL (pre-M2010, which was sold up until last year):
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/automobiles/27SNELL.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

Talks about why the author of the above article GOT FIRED for writing it (not that we didn't know sponsors don't have clout):
How The Truth About Motorcycle Helmets Got A Journalist Fired

More info on standard differences:
Helmet Standards Throwdown - Snell vs DOT vs ECE R22-05

Motorcycle Helmet Safety Standards

A final word: I also found multiple references to what was hailed as a *very* complete article on comparisons done by the MSF organization (which was not necessarily generous towards SNELL). However, it has since seemed to be "mysteriously" pulled.

EDIT: Keep in mind, both Arai and Shoei (among others) are heavily invested in the SNELL moniker on most of their helmets. So, look at any video, website, or testimonial from their respective sites or sponsorship, in regard to SNELL, with a little skepticism...

P.S. SNELL M2015 is set to roll out next year... Question is what changes are made that obsolete the current M2010?

Thanks for the info