Engine braking ok?

[VEGASRIDER]

Let's face it...ANY time you let off the throttle with the clutch still engaged, you're engine braking in varying degrees, depending on what gear you're in (the lower the gear, the more extreme the effect).

Well said, any member who sais they never engaged in engine braking is fooling themselves. Like Burnspot has said, anytime you let off the throttle, and even downshift to another gear will result in some degree of compression.

Another good point some member had mentioned, if it's bad for the bike, it would state that in the owners manual.

From my personal riding expereince hitting the twisties, I could hit an entire stretch of twisties without even using either brake, only because I have either let off the throttle or have downshifted into a lower gear prior to entering the turn. I find it very difficult to ride that agressive in the twisties and not allowing yourself to slow down by the engine.

 

[Wildcard]

I never engine brake or downshift because it is so bad for the engine. Once I hit 6th gear for the first time I was screwed. Oh well my clutch control is amazing!!!

hahahahah :thumbup:

 

[Unseen]

Well said, any member who sais they never engaged in engine braking is fooling themselves. Like Burnspot has said, anytime you let off the throttle, and even downshift to another gear will result in some degree of compression.

Another good point some member had mentioned, if it's bad for the bike, it would state that in the owners manual.

From my personal riding expereince hitting the twisties, I could hit an entire stretch of twisties without even using either brake, only because I have either let off the throttle or have downshifted into a lower gear prior to entering the turn. I find it very difficult to ride that agressive in the twisties and not allowing yourself to slow down by the engine.

Same here, engine braking is part of driving a manual vehicle. I do it on my FZ6 and with my car. Actually in the mountain areas in Europe there are signs telling you to use engine braking for the steep downhill parts, as otherwise your brakes will overheat from excessive braking.

 

[GastonJ]

How the hell do people who don't engine brake go down steep hills? The signs in the UK all say "engage low gear"... saves burning your brakes out as you go down. Normal practice. Perhaps those who don't use engine braking drive automatic cars? I should point out that automatic car gearboxes also have "brake bands" as well, for engine braking.

It assists in stopping quickly and smoothly, ensuring that rear brake doesn't lock the rear wheel, and ensures that if for whatever reason you have to accellerate that you aren't going to try chug away from 10mph in 6th.... I don't know anyone who approaching a reasonable bend in the road stays in 6th and uses their brakes to slow down to go round the bend, do you? Me I change down to get to the right gear, and use engine braking to get me to the right speed, get the engine to a reasonable rate of revs so I can get round the bend and then acellerate

I used to be a member of the IMI back in the early 80's just in case anyone thinks they can convince me that it will damage my engine.

 

[KensFz6]

How the hell do people who don't engine brake go down steep hills? The signs in the UK all say "engage low gear"... saves burning your brakes out as you go down. Normal practice. Perhaps those who don't use engine braking drive automatic cars? I should point out that automatic car gearboxes also have "brake bands" as well, for engine braking.

You just about hit it on the head for me.

I'm like most Americans, I drive an automatic. Even though the techniques for driving both very are different, I tend to carry my automatic mentality into riding. For example, when in the car and when traffic allows, I will let off the gas and coast for thousands of feet when I see the light up ahead turn yellow before finally braking if the light is still red when I get there.

I'm not smooth enough in my down shifting to behave like this so sometimes I'm sorely tempted to just pull the clutch and coast... but I believe the manual says coasting in N is bad so I imagine clutch out isn't a great idea either.

 

[MNDZA]

You just about hit it on the head for me.

I'm like most Americans, I drive an automatic. Even though the techniques for driving both very are different, I tend to carry my automatic mentality into riding. For example, when in the car and when traffic allows, I will let off the gas and coast for thousands of feet when I see the light up ahead turn yellow before finally braking if the light is still red when I get there.

I'm not smooth enough in my down shifting to behave like this so sometimes I'm sorely tempted to just pull the clutch and coast... but I believe the manual says coasting in N is bad so I imagine clutch out isn't a great idea either.

No. The manual says coasting with the engine off, even if in N, is bad. You can coast in N if the engine is on with no problems.

 

[Wildcard]

^ What he said ^ coasting in N is not bad at all. That'd be ridiculous.

 

[GastonJ]

Actually coasting in neutral, or with the clutch in is a very bad habit.

In a car lack of control, no drive, lower RPM means that your power steering and brake servo unit aren't running at the efficiency that they should be. Ever noticed how when pulling out of somewhere from stop the steering is more difficult? it's because your power steering pump is driven from the engine and the more you rev the more pressure. Not to mention that the air con is also driven the same way..

It should also be noted that the drive fluid coupling, and other pumps, in an auto gearbox are driven by crankshaft speed as well. So coasting in N isn't all it's cracked up to be. Doesn't save fuel either, no matter what popular belief.

I remember the Suzuki GT500, 2 stroke twin for those who remember them. Those inscruitable Japanese engineers drove the 2 stroke oil pump from the clutch, so pulling and holding the clutch in actually meant you got no oil.. wonderful system :thumbup: although that's neither here nor there I just thought I'd mention it

 

[FizzySix]

The manual says coasting with the engine off, even if in N, is bad.

I wonder why that is, anyone know? I don't have a manual handy. I wonder if it's just for safety reasons (i.e. turning your engine off while riding would be kinda stupid) rather than harming the bike somehow.

Not that I have any plans to try it, just curious. I push mine around the garage in N all the time to rearrange and make space for whatever I'm working on, and she doesn't seem to mind...

 

[GastonJ]

I wonder why that is, anyone know? I don't have a manual handy. I wonder if it's just for safety reasons (i.e. turning your engine off while riding would be kinda stupid) rather than harming the bike somehow.

Not that I have any plans to try it, just curious. I push mine around the garage in N all the time to rearrange and make space for whatever I'm working on, and she doesn't seem to mind...

When the rear wheels are turning the propellor shaft is turning (whether in gear or not) which turns the output shaft in the transmission and if the transmisssion is not in gear then there is no fluid being pumped. Same on FWD btw. That apart from the stuff about the engine not revving as much as it should be so alternator, power steearing, brake servo, air con not spinning as fast as they should be for the speed you're doing. It's also illegal in some places to coast in neutral btw.

Now I'll bow out of this thread because it's moved off the real point

 

[urbanj]

You're wrong. The engine is a big air compressor. It takes energy to compress the air, which is supplied by the fuel being injected and ignited. You let off the throttle on a diesel and it's not really spraying any fuel, just enough to idle. You then engine brake, spinning the engine up fast, using the kinetic energy of the vehicle to compress the air in the clyinders. This energy that is used to compress the air in the cylinders slows down the truck, since it is a lot of energy, that isn't being provided for by the fuel.

Actually, the vacuum created behind the throttle body on a gasoline engine helps the engine to not engine brake. The vacuum disallows air to be sucked into the cylinders to get compressed, which basically means the engine is pumping no air, which allows it to spin much more freely. Try this, get in your car and let it run, rev it up and shut it off while it is revved up, making absolutely sure to have your foot off of the throttle while it is revved up. It will smoothly come to a stop, because it isn't hardly sucking any air, so it has nothing really to compress. Then do the same thing, but right when you shut it off, floor it. It'll shake when it shuts off just like a diesel. This is because it is sucking air in and compressing it. It will also stop spinning faster than without opening up the throttle, once again because it takes energy to compress the air. This effect will be more noticeable in different vehicles than others. Some, it might be really hard to tell the difference, but it will happen. One of the main ways you can tell if it's a car where you don't notice a difference is the sound and speed at which it spools down.

I can try to go into more detail and explain this to you more if you would like.

And the part where you said when the air is compressed and then when nothing is done to it, it expands and pushes the piston back down, that doesn't make any sense at all. If that were the case, we would have engines that could run on nothing, just start em up and the could run off of air.

And I use mostly my front brake to slow down, but if I'm not coming to a stop or slowing down in a rapid manner, I will just downshift match the revs and be on my way.

a diesel engine has much more rotational mass vs a gas motor. plus most of the time, the vehicle it is in, is much heavier.

the gas motors piston is fighting manifold vacuum on the way down in the cylinder. the diesel in unthrottled and the cylinder is being fed 14.7 psia and compressing it to 350psi to 700psi depending on the application

the car test doesn't verify anything because youre at a stop. if it were moving and in gear, the engine is running strictly based on what the drivetrain will let it. as wheel speed slows so will engine.

that ties to the compressed gas forcing the piston down. it wont run the engine from a standstart or keep it running but when running down the road, whatever the engine speed is, the huge rotational mass of the rotating assembly in a diesel + the compression pressures push the piston down making it take a long as time to slow.

For Urbanj and my semi-truck mention...nope, I only had my normal air brakes outside of whatever effect I could get from my non-Jaked engine braking. A normal non-Jaked diesel just doesn't give you a lot of engine braking. There were MANY times I wished I had gotten a Jake installed though as it would've prevented many ass-clenching moments when my brakes started to go away while still halfway down a hill (Grapevine in CA is a challenge for heavily loaded trucks....oh the stories I could tell).

thanks, i misunderstood you.

 

[SoulRider]

Read through this whole thread and nobody mentioned this:
Does the new FZ6R come with a gear indicator?

 

[Verranth]

SoulRider,

No, the FZ6R does not have a gear indicator, just Nuetral light.



....


engine breaking - ...everyone does it, ....everytime you ease up on the gas...



my personal rule of thumb ----> stay in the power band, and everything should be good. =) :thumbup:

 

[Atron]

the engine actually consumes less if you are in gear and not touching the throttle than if you are idling.. so braking with engine in conjuction with front and rear brakes is actually better for your mpg and for brakes and engine

 

[area]

Read through this whole thread and nobody mentioned this:
Does the new FZ6R come with a gear indicator?

I think there are only a couple bikes out there that will list what gear your in...but after a day or two of riding you should be able to tell by the feel of your gears.

For instance you will be able to feel what its like to be downshifting into 2nd or the gear upshifting into 6th..

Another good way to tell what gear your in is being mindful of your RPM's/sound the engine is making, depending on the speed and my RPM's I can get a pretty good feel for what gear I am in.