How to take corners more effectively?


Okay, so I have a few questions in regards to how you all experienced riders take your sharp and moderately sharp corners.

I guess you could say I still have some corner fright even after riding for 4 years.

Sometimes sharp corners do come up rather suddenly on the highway. I'm wondering, what do you do if you're caught off guard? I'm not going in extreme speeds, I'm just out of my comfort zone. This is where I get into trouble. I straighten out the bike and apply the brakes. Most of the time I'm fine, but there were some instances the corner was sharper than I thought and I tried to lean hard and barely made the corner. I wasn't going that fast too.

I can take corners just fine if I slow down. I always get this butterfly feeling if I continue to press the handlebar to increase the turn after I'm already doing a pretty decent lean.

I'm also wondering if my riding position just isn't good enough. I do know I'm more comfortable at taking corners either in the upright position, or slightly bent forward (3/4 riding position I think it's called). I always wonder if I try to lean too hard, I won't be able to recover from it. I think that's the "falling" sensation I'm getting.

Below are images I pulled from google to give you an idea of the types of corners that bother me at highway, or less speeds. Not to say I want to take the on and off ramps of a highway at 55 mph going around the circle, but I'd like to know that I'm capable of doing it.

Thanks in advance!




 
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BzB

Member
I'm a novice with the same challenge. Experienced riders have told me the best bet is to slow down as much as possible on the straight, approach turns at listed speeds, determine apex and exit, look through the turn, countersteer and then roll on throttle. MSF also teaches this. Slowing down is the main point though. Primarily because these aren't well maintained closed course roads. Even the best techniques won't make up for obstacles, debris, random pedestrian/animal and other drivers.

I've watched twist of the wrist and a lot of the principles are applicable to street riding, but it seems track riders would get the most out of it. They can apply the principles without being concerned about the additional risks of street riding.

All the above was a long winded way of saying, on the street slower speeds and good technique seem like the best way to navigate tight turns. I plan on letting loose once I make time for track day lessons. :D
 

blkbrd

Elite Member

b6r

New Member
Below are images I pulled from google to give you an idea of the types of corners that bother me at highway, or less speeds. Not to say I want to take the on and off ramps of a highway at 55 mph going around the circle, but I'd like to know that I'm capable of doing it.

Thanks in advance!




this video I shot few months back on my fz6r, the bike can turn nicely around the ramps safely with some speed. getting yourself ready before the turn and position is important. sometimes I push the bike to my own limits and I can go around at ~125-130km/h (~75mph?) comfortably, so you are good at 55mph!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QRwgvRuteMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QRwgvRuteM
 
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Bert-Aus

Well-Known Member
The most important thing is LOOK where you want to go
-looking through the corner (longer corners require stages or keyways) is what makes or breaks you

you will be amazed by how much your bike is capable of
book yourself a trackday and ride to your ability,
you will learn a wealth of knowledge about your bike, yourself and others around you
having confidence in yourself and your bike will pay dividends when (not if) some cager decides to ignore your presence on the road
 

dart1963

Super Moderator
Elite Member

nismos14

I'm movin on
Elite Member
This is one of the on-ramps near my house that I absolutely hate going on because I have to slow down to about 20-25 mph. You're all saying that the bike can handle a turn like this at 55 mph? I guess I had to see it before I could truly believe it.

I always did well in the MSF course. I looked through the corners, etc. I didn't think I had a turning issue. Then again, the entire class was using 250's and maybe since the bike was lighter, I could handle it more easily.
 

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dart1963

Super Moderator
Elite Member
For me, 40 MPH, is a tough call on the ramp I showed you. I just don't lean/turn hard enough. I seriously feel like the bike is going to fall over when I turn hard at slow speeds. Anywhere under 50 MPH, I don't turn hard because I serious can feel the "balance" of the bike.

That's a nice video at 50 seconds. I want to do that :).

Also, I believe the closest track is about an hour and a half away from me :(. I also don't own leather pants, so I can't go yet.
 

LKLD

New Member
This is what I did with my wife and daughter.

Took them on a road they're familiar with, and with very little, to no traffic.
First, we would enter a corner (say, 35 posted), and do 15 mph.
Do it again at 20, then again at 25, and so on until we reached 35. By the time we got to 35, they were comfortable with it. Over time, they continued with the 5 mph increase, and can do 50.

Also, just about every posted corner speed can easily be done 10 mph over.

Trust those tires. You have peg feelers for a reason, they're the warning that you're near the edge of your tire.

Practice, gain confidence, and practice some more.
 
Also, I believe the closest track is about an hour and a half away from me :(.
Consider yourself lucky! That's nothing. If I want to do a weekend track day, I'll need to make a 3 day weekend of it :( Nothing near me. You could ride there in the morning then ride home in the evening.
 

Maadi

New Member
Lots of good info here. I'd just like to state one more thing that may be obvious but want to make sure it is said - when you look through the turn, keep your eyes level with the road surface, not with the lean of you bike. You're probably already doing it, but if not, it may contribute to the feeling of "falling" because your brain is trying to process the lean and the turn at the same time. For example, when watching Dart's video I twisted my head to the left to keep my eyes level with the road.
Another tip is to make sure you downshift to the proper gear (slow down to the proper speed too, like people said) - increasing the throttle (even a little bit - no rocket launch here) through the turn makes the bike more stable.
 

RoadTrip

New Member
Keith Code's book talks about SR's (survival reactions) and how they can actually make you ride worse by getting tense and putting too much input into the bike when thing appear sketchy (e.g. entering a turn too fast). For those tight turns setting up entry speed, tipping in, looking through, and smooth throttle roll on are the basic method. The SR's to avoid are chopping the throttle and fixing you eyes on the outer edge of the road if you feel you are going wide. Instead you breath, look, relax, and gently modulate throttle thru the turn if you feel you are going wide.

Falling sensation could be pointy tires, stick with Sport Touring or rounder tires, flat spotted center of tires can also feel like falling as they come off the flat and quickly transition to the sidewall. Also, keep on the throttle, at very least cracked, do not attempt to fully close the the throttle cause you scrub speed through a corner and you bike angle is too much if slowing down.

Finally, I love me some sweepers and 35mph turns and up, but I have learned not to get cocky with 10-25mph posted turns, flicking too hard and hitting the throttle. I did have a big rear drift one time and I learned to tone it down on the streets on really tight turns, same thing will happen in a car, best to find limits you feel comfortable with and push ultimate limits at a track. Its okay to be the slow guy in the twisties as long as you are riding proper and get home in one piece.
 

nismos14

I'm movin on
Elite Member
I think you mentioned you felt your bike was unstable, perhaps letting someone else ride it and see if that really is the case?
I've let friends and even the Yamaha dealer ride the bike. Nothing is wrong with it. It's just a sensation I get when I lean too hard. If I push the bars too far to one side I'm sure gravity will take over and it'll just fall over. That's basically the feeling I get when I'm already in a lean. This happens at slow speeds. An example would be try turning the bike sharply in a parking lot at 5-10 mph, you can feel the bike tip over in each turn.
 

nismos14

I'm movin on
Elite Member

brownwa

New Member
I've let friends and even the Yamaha dealer ride the bike. Nothing is wrong with it. It's just a sensation I get when I lean too hard. If I push the bars too far to one side I'm sure gravity will take over and it'll just fall over. That's basically the feeling I get when I'm already in a lean. This happens at slow speeds. An example would be try turning the bike sharply in a parking lot at 5-10 mph, you can feel the bike tip over in each turn.
If there's an advanced MSF course near you called "Road Rider" or "Road Rider 2.0" I strongly recommend taking it. It was like a revelation for me. They teach you how to take slow sweepers with the bike leaned all the way over... and then make you lean it even more.

[edit] Actually looks like they have one near you called Basic RiderCourse 2.

A great exercise to try on your own in a parking lot is what I like to call the scooter or dirt bike exercise. Basically keep the bike in second (less jerky than first) and do really slow u-turns, I mean as slow as you can. The secret is to put all your weight on the pegs, even going as far as getting your *** up off the seat a bit. Keep your body upright but let the bike lean over beneath you. You will be amazed how far you can tilt the bike over in the dirt-bike/scooter position. Just remember, when it doubt give it gas. The throttle is what's pushing the bike up. As you build confidence you'll be able to do even slower and tighter turns.

Now translate that to these onramps, your body english will be way different but psychologically you won't be afraid of leaning. Even at 15 miles per hour you can lean the FZ6R to the pegs. It sounds nuts but I touched a boot in first gear at the track without realizing it. I have a little mantra that I learned from the Road Rider 2.0/Advanced MSF class:

Look and grip,
steady throttle,
kiss your mirrors.

Like the guys above said, look as far through the turn as you can. Gripping the gas tank with your knees tricks you into putting a bit of weight on the pegs. It also gets your weight of the handle bars. Kissing your mirrors means getting your chin forward and as close to your inside mirror as possible. If you're already twisting your head around to look then just lean forward so that your stomach is on the gas tank. After a few weeks of this you'll easily be doing on ramps at +10mph over the posted limit. It works wonders on those mountain hairpins too.
 
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