Changing the timing


Scott_Thomas

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Elite Member

Rumpig

Member
Yeah, i'm gunna have to do the cam swap. Fz8 and Fz1 guys have done the trigger mod and were happy with it. Sterlo posted in the dyno thread, in the 90s I think.
 

Marthy

World Most Bad A$$ 6R
Elite Member

Scott_Thomas

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Elite Member

Marthy

World Most Bad A$$ 6R
Elite Member
If these behave anything like the FZ - its a No cost mod to far better throttle response, fuel economy and general increased pickup speed. Doing this made it completely clear that 1st and 2nd do not behave as 3rd through 6th gear do. 3rd and 4th really pull GREAT NOW! Clearly the OEM ECU ignition advance is holding the FZ6 back in 1st, 2nd and to far lesser extent 3rd gear. Take note that advancing the the timing also squirts the fuel in sooner.

FWIW: advancing it an additional 6.0° from the stock 5.0° for a total of (11°), requires a commitment to higher octane fuel!
 

ST3RL0

New Member
My knowledge on ignition timing is sfa, but would this affect the ecu or would it just go off the new figure?
Going to do my homework on this tonight

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 

Rumpig

Member
The ecu doesn't know anythings changed, it just tricks it by moving it's T.D.C reference point so that ignition happens sooner, but the injectors "Start of Injection" changes by the same amount. Higher octane fuel is recommended to prevent pinging. Power commander requires an additional controller to change timing $$$
 

ST3RL0

New Member
The ecu doesn't know anythings changed, it just tricks it by moving it's T.D.C reference point so that ignition happens sooner, but the injectors "Start of Injection" changes by the same amount. Higher octane fuel is recommended to prevent pinging. Power commander requires an additional controller to change timing $$$
Cheers, that's all I needed to know

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
My knowledge on ignition timing is sfa, but would this affect the ecu or would it just go off the new figure?
Going to do my homework on this tonight

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
I've had this in place for about a year now. ECU doesn't know jack! :D

Really tho; The CPS is the one thing the bike can't have fail as it is its only reference point and there is no fail safe operation (limp mode for firmware override). So it only knows what it sees. We simply gave it a different reference point.

And yes, they used Loctite on that bolt. FZ6 torque spec is 25Ft/lbs but it doesn't come off willingly without an impact gun. And it is a conventional right hand thread.

Q? Does your trigger wheel look like this? i.e. - same lobe count and configuration?




Also, between 13.0:1 AFR from Bazzaz, CAT free exhaust, air box mod and this mod, bike is very responsive and is running cooler plugs (CR10E).
 
Powwwwwaaaaaaa! LOL Good pick up in the mid range.

Mine still has stock FZ cams, but it comes on good at about 6500 (was 8k) now and pulls very well! I need a documented 1320 run but video indicates its in the low low low 11.0s on pump gas and street tires. :p
 
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Marthy

World Most Bad A$$ 6R
Elite Member
Ignition timing advance notes

Yes it does look exactly like that.
If it holds this same PN: ROTOR 5VX-81673-00-00 the same math can be applied. Here ya go....

How I calculated amount to file off locator Tab:

The OD of the trigger wheel is 2.475" (outer edge of humps)
Dia (inches) * Pie/360 = In/per degree
2.4750" * 3.14159 = circumference/360 = 0.021597" per degree (OUTSIDE EDGE).

To advance 5.0° from its original location the outside must advance:
0.021597"/deg * 4.0 degrees = 4.0 deg = 0.0863"
0.021597"/deg * 5.0 degrees = 5.0 deg = 0.1079"
^^ YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS TO VERIFY YOUR WORK! ^^ i.e. set the finished trigger on the crank (hold with bolt). Rotate CCW and measure to the engine case forming a 90°. Right down value. Rotate fully CW and measure to the case forming the same 90° angle. A dial indicator is best, but veneer calipers will work. The value should match your calculations above.

Calculate how much to file off the Tab:
To determine amount to remove from the Tab I broke it into 3 sections; the hole (ID1), the Slot (ID2) and the Tab (ID3) to determine the diameter to solve for. This is because we have no actual center or I'd to solve for the radius.

ID1 = 0.6305" dia HOLE } measure hole w/calipers "direct"
ID2 = 0.1050" X 2 SLOT } Total distance across open hole MINUS ID1. Multiply this by 2. "indirect"
ID3 = 0.1955" X 1 TAB } measure length of Tab "direct"
=======================
Dia = 1.036" to the center of the Tab and an equal distance opposite.
Meaning, it matters which section of the Tab we solve for, inner, middle or outer edge AND we are solving for a circle or the diameter ~ the red lines.



Apply formula:
1.036" * 3.1415/360° = 0.0090"

4.0° * 0.0090"/deg = 0.036"
4.5° * 0.0090"/deg = 0.040"
5.0° * 0.0090"/deg = 0.045"
6.0° * 0.0090"/deg = 0.054

NOTE: the OEM Locator Tab is 0.0197" wide uncut. File the leading edge to obtain final thickness.
4 deg adv: 0.197" - 0.036" = 0.161" final width 5 deg adv: 0.197" - 0.045" = 0.152" final width!

There ya go. Use a dial indicator to verify amount rotated. Weld up the unused portion once you meet your desired amount of rotation.
Measure OFTEN, REMOVE LITTLE and VERIFY amount of rotation!

** THIS IS A GUIDE ONLY! ** Results will vary!

Good luck!
Do acknowledge that I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for ANYTHING YOU DO TO YOUR VEHICLE!!!
 

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Rumpig

Member
As for getting the nut undone, some said to put the bike in gear and put a piece of 4x2 thru the back wheel so it pins against the swing arm. Breaker bar should do it easy then.
 
I tried using the brake in both 1st and 6th gears. Too much wind up. Grabbed an impact gun and zip... Came right off.

Being a cast wheel, I'd be hesitant to place a load on a spoke. Its just not worth the risk IMO.
 

Rumpig

Member
FZ6 runs 5 degrees at 1300 rpm. http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/servicespecs/2008/SvcSpec_08_FZ6_819.pdf

FZ6R runs 6.5 degrees at 1300 rpm. http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/servicespecs/2009/09_fz6r_srvdata_870.pdf

Probably shouldn't add more than 4 degrees to be safe. Regular unleaded here is 91 octane with 95 and 98 readily available. I believe in the U.S it's 89 for regular? Not sure if timing would vary between countries to allow for different fuel types but guessing not as it's not much difference. Still waiting on the spare timing wheel to turn up.
 



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