Cartridge fork emulators / RaceTech Gold Valves


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SAFE-T

New Member
Seen a couple of people on the forum rave about these.

The thing I don't get is that the FZ6R already has a cartridge style fork, so what is the point of putting in a product that makes your fork work like a cartridge style, if that's what you already have ?

Did a search on emulators across the forum, but couldn't find an answer.
 
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wtnotch

New Member
I think the keyword is 'style' and was probably promoted by Yamaha's marketing department :)

The FZ6R's forks are really damping rod forks, and use holes drilled in the damping rods to control the damping. The only way to adjust them is to change the spring rate or oil viscosity.

Here's a link to a RaceTech page that goes into pretty much detail about the difference between the two types.

Cartridge Forks

So far, I've replaced the springs on my FZ6R with some from RaceTech that are more suited to my weight (around 200lbs), and I have installed the RaceTech Emulators in the forks. The difference in both ride and controllability is significant.

With my current setup, the front end works better than the rear, and the rebound damping on the rear doesn't feel like it can keep up with the increased spring rate. Overall, it's good, but not great. I am really picky about suspension setup though.

I have a HyperPro shock in my garage that I'm trying to get some free time to install, and that should help balance things out.

Russ
 
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JonKerr

Senior Member
Elite Member
I've actually tried to order the springs and oil from Racetech for the last 2 days and it keeps giving me an error message. Thanks for bringing this up and reminding me, I just Emailed them to get them on order.
 
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wtnotch

New Member
JonKerr said:
I've actually tried to order the springs and oil from Racetech for the last 2 days and it keeps giving me an error message. Thanks for bringing this up and reminding me, I just Emailed them to get them on order.
Click to expand...
Actually, the only way I was able to get my order was to phone it in. Email didn't work either.
 
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hfd1 tuner

New Member
Any Parts Unlimted dealer can get the Race Tech parts for the FZ6R. I just today installed the gold valve kit and new fork springs .95 Kg 20 weight fork oil set oil height to 130mm from top with no spring fork tube compressed. Added 15mm of spring spacer. completely changed the ft. feel..going to Barber Motorsport Park track this weekend to give it a proper test:)

The rear shock kit Race tech makes is proving to be hard...I have it apart need to weld in a valve to charge the shock.
 
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KenS

New Member
So, I did a check on Race Tech's site and it says the stock spring rate for our front is .900 kg/mm which is pretty good for stock. I played around with the numbers and using 180lb rider and 470 lb (wet) bike weight it says the new recommended front should be .943 kg/mm. 200lbs is .973 kg/mm. 170lbs is .928 kg/mm. Overall, it doesn't seem like much of a difference for the money yet people are saying it's made a big difference ... sure it isn't a placebo effect? I agree the suspension could definitely better, but based on these numbers are you all that have changed to race tech REALLY noticing a difference? Just asking because I've been looking at doing this or the hyperpro change myself.
 
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Uno979

Thuper Moderator
Premium Member
KenS said:
So, I did a check on Race Tech's site and it says the stock spring rate for our front is .900 kg/mm which is pretty good for stock. I played around with the numbers and using 180lb rider and 470 lb (wet) bike weight it says the new recommended front should be .943 kg/mm. 200lbs is .973 kg/mm. 170lbs is .928 kg/mm. Overall, it doesn't seem like much of a difference for the money yet people are saying it's made a big difference ... sure it isn't a placebo effect? I agree the suspension could definitely better, but based on these numbers are you all that have changed to race tech REALLY noticing a difference? Just asking because I've been looking at doing this or the hyperpro change myself.
Click to expand...
Just because the numbers look so close doesn't mean the difference in operation is that close. In fact it isn't close at all. Ask any professional who deals with front ends and racers who operate the bikes. The change is tiny but the out come is dramatic. If you take a fully adjustable suspension and take two riders whose difference is 5 lbs, dial it in for one rider and leave it for the other you may not feel the difference but you can see it in the tires. The wear is enough to destroy a tire in as little as ten laps when if dialed in can last maybe two races.

I have a friend in Dallas, TX who only races and is a privateer. He walked me through it all.
 
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Spunky99

New Member
wtnotch said:
I think the keyword is 'style' and was probably promoted by Yamaha's marketing department :)

The FZ6R's forks are really damping rod forks, and use holes drilled in the damping rods to control the damping. The only way to adjust them is to change the spring rate or oil viscosity.

Here's a link to a RaceTech page that goes into pretty much detail about the difference between the two types.

Cartridge Forks

So far, I've replaced the springs on my FZ6R with some from RaceTech that are more suited to my weight (around 200lbs), and I have installed the RaceTech Emulators in the forks. The difference in both ride and controllability is significant.

With my current setup, the front end works better than the rear, and the rebound damping on the rear doesn't feel like it can keep up with the increased spring rate. Overall, it's good, but not great. I am really picky about suspension setup though.

I have a HyperPro shock in my garage that I'm trying to get some free time to install, and that should help balance things out.

Russ
Click to expand...
I did the springs, heavier weight oil and the rear shock spring from RaceTech.
very satisfied for the price.
 
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KenS

New Member
Uno979 said:
Just because the numbers look so close doesn't mean the difference in operation is that close. In fact it isn't close at all. Ask any professional who deals with front ends and racers who operate the bikes. The change is tiny but the out come is dramatic. If you take a fully adjustable suspension and take two riders whose difference is 5 lbs, dial it in for one rider and leave it for the other you may not feel the difference but you can see it in the tires. The wear is enough to destroy a tire in as little as ten laps when if dialed in can last maybe two races.

I have a friend in Dallas, TX who only races and is a privateer. He walked me through it all.
Click to expand...
Good to know since I have hardly any experience with suspensions. I'm leaning towards the Race Tech emulator setup then instead of just the hyperpro spring kit. I'm also going to do my brake upgrade as well (SS lines front and rear, new pads) ... now I don't know which one I want to do first since they both have good applicability and are safety upgrades as well. Decisions, decisions. Thanks for the info though :)
 
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hfd1 tuner

New Member
KenS said:
Good to know since I have hardly any experience with suspensions. I'm leaning towards the Race Tech emulator setup then instead of just the hyperpro spring kit. I'm also going to do my brake upgrade as well (SS lines front and rear, new pads) ... now I don't know which one I want to do first since they both have good applicability and are safety upgrades as well. Decisions, decisions. Thanks for the info though :)
Click to expand...
The spring weight just helps the way the bike turns and going in on the brakes. .90 kg to .95 kg is small number but allows you to set the ft forks at a differant height for a better turn in and allows the suspention to work in a better part of the stroke mid turn. It will top out faster on exit. The big change is in the emulators night and day differance on how the ft dives and rebounds. Face it the bike is not built to be a racer ...however it handles very good for the type of bike it is in stock form. I found few faults riding it on the track I have many race miles on with the OEM tires. It just was a little to soft for ft end feed back and the rear shock...well it is way off but at that track it still worked good. Barber this weeked will be the true test. I have race rubber new ft springs and emulators and a custom made rear shock.
 
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KenS

New Member
hfd1 tuner said:
The spring weight just helps the way the bike turns and going in on the brakes. .90 kg to .95 kg is small number but allows you to set the ft forks at a differant height for a better turn in and allows the suspention to work in a better part of the stroke mid turn. It will top out faster on exit. The big change is in the emulators night and day differance on how the ft dives and rebounds. Face it the bike is not built to be a racer ...however it handles very good for the type of bike it is in stock form. I found few faults riding it on the track I have many race miles on with the OEM tires. It just was a little to soft for ft end feed back and the rear shock...well it is way off but at that track it still worked good. Barber this weeked will be the true test. I have race rubber new ft springs and emulators and a custom made rear shock.
Click to expand...
So, if I focus on the front end emulator setup with Race Tech, is it going to throw off the rear end dynamics that much if I stay with stock? I'm ok with the preload adjustment since dialing it up (to 6) kept it more stable in the hills and hard riding. Or will I need to change the rear set up as well? Thanks for the info.
 
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owldaddy

New Member
I didn't make any changes to the rear suspension other then dialing in the preload on the stock shock. The Gold valves make a big difference by themselves.
 
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SAFE-T

New Member
I wish wish wish people would comment on what different suspension for the street vs. the track is like.

The reason is, turn 5 is not on my street map. I have read lots of suspension threads from people who put in RaceTech recommended springs only to find them too harsh for the street, or who sent their rear shock to Lindemann Engineering and it came back too harsh for the street and had to be sent back to be re-done, etc etc etc.

The way you ride on the street should be different than the way you ride on a closed course. Changes in chassis geometry caused by suspension that is too soft is a real problem, so the first thing a race tuner wants to do is increase the spring rate.

On the other hand, on the street you shouldn't be charging into the corners on the brakes, should you ?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VruWHHEnZGw]YouTube - Mick Doohan - No Place to Race[/ame]

If you focus more on selecting the proper gear and speed BEFORE the corner, what you want is better suspension compliance to keep the tires in contact with the ground. This is where the internal design of the forks/shocks are important.

.900 kg/mm seems more than enough for the street on a 400lb. bike unless you are over 200 lb. yourself.

For street riding, I would look at modifications which improve the compliance of the stock components (emulators, fork oil, preload spacers) and perhaps* take a performance riding course to get better on my own bike before I changed spring rate. Most people can't even use the potential their bike already has, and again on the street the full potential of your bike is not what you want to explore.

*If I could find a course that focused on how to ride better, rather than faster, on a closed course. And not something that costs $3,000 either.
We have programs like Lee Park's Total Control (Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic) available but only in a parking lot.
 
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joloy133

New Member
Remember, this suspension question is the challenge and the fun...... The stock set up was considered fair to good for the intended design and purpose of the bike. The "best" improvement would be close to track specs. but it is limited in focus and best served for those that ride for that purpose. Any improvement over stock that matches the rider to his riding purpose and physical requirements is an improvement if done correctly. The hardest part is knowing what you want vs what you think you might want........ do what's good for you. I made changes which other riders may deem too subtle and others like the stock just fine! No true right or wrong, other than color choice......mine's yellow........baby!
 
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SAFE-T

New Member
KenS said:
Is it going to throw off the rear end dynamics that much if I stay with stock? I'm ok with the preload adjustment since dialing it up (to 6) kept it more stable in the hills and hard riding. Or will I need to change the rear set up as well?
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on how you ride, really. The most common answer you will get from anyone who does suspension for a living is to do both front and rear together.

I would look at setting up sag properly for both the front and rear once you have the Gold Valve stuff in the front fork and go from there.

Ask the Geek: Set Your Static Sag - Sport Rider Magazine
 
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stuna

New Member
SAFE-T said:
I wish wish wish people would comment on what different suspension for the street vs. the track is like.

The reason is, turn 5 is not on my street map. I have read lots of suspension threads from people who put in RaceTech recommended springs only to find them too harsh for the street, or who sent their rear shock to Lindemann Engineering and it came back too harsh for the street and had to be sent back to be re-done, etc etc etc.

The way you ride on the street should be different than the way you ride on a closed course. Changes in chassis geometry caused by suspension that is too soft is a real problem, so the first thing a race tuner wants to do is increase the spring rate.

On the other hand, on the street you shouldn't be charging into the corners on the brakes, should you ?

YouTube - Mick Doohan - No Place to Race

If you focus more on selecting the proper gear and speed BEFORE the corner, what you want is better suspension compliance to keep the tires in contact with the ground. This is where the internal design of the forks/shocks are important.

.900 kg/mm seems more than enough for the street on a 400lb. bike unless you are over 200 lb. yourself.

For street riding, I would look at modifications which improve the compliance of the stock components (emulators, fork oil, preload spacers) and perhaps* take a performance riding course to get better on my own bike before I changed spring rate. Most people can't even use the potential their bike already has, and again on the street the full potential of your bike is not what you want to explore.

*If I could find a course that focused on how to ride better, rather than faster, on a closed course. And not something that costs $3,000 either.
We have programs like Lee Park's Total Control (Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic) available but only in a parking lot.
Click to expand...
THATS WHY I USE HYPERPRO SPRINGS . there not straight rate springs . soft @first then stiffer as you need them
Hyperpro Suspension Upgrade Review
 

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Spunky99

New Member
stuna said:
THATS WHY I USE HYPERPRO SPRINGS . there not straight rate springs . soft @first then stiffer as you need them
Hyperpro Suspension Upgrade Review
Click to expand...
I did the front and rear spring and the 15 weight oil all from Racetech. I did the install and the custom spacers in the forks so that I have 25mm sag.
The bike is stiff but not bouncy at all and handles very well for the type of forks installed and the steel tube frame that does flex some.
Since it works so well I didn't bother with the cartridge emulators.
 
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