Here we go again. Got myself a set of FZ6 camshaft and a degree wheel. I've been searching for info and can't find nothing. So I will find out what I want. Cams spec for FZ6R, then FZ6. If it fit, I will let everyone know. Look like there's 0.055" more lift. What I'm interested in is duration... That's what really matter. To be continue...
Camshaft specs... The next project!
- Thread starter Marthy
- Start date
Y
yellowfz
Oh no , dang Martin no rest for the wicked .
If you do get the cams in , will you have to swap ECU or at least alter the MAPs on the present one to compensate for the different cam profile ?Should be interesting to see if the FZ6 cams fit , but I bet there is more to the FZ6 hp increase (20hp) than just the cams .
I know the Power Commander can alter fuel but spark and air are important as well in tuning a engine as you know so well .
Last edited by a moderator:
Let's say that if fit and the valve spring don't coil bind... I will start with close where the timing is on the 6R (I/E lobe sep and in lobe center) and work from there. I tough about swaping ECU also... but I'll try to get away with the PCV. I put back the Auto tune and play with the map. I won't worry too much about spark timing... might cost me few ponies but it's ok. You will be surprise how much you can get out of a cam swap. I use to do it on my old Civic back in the late 80's early 90's. The exhaust set up I have is good and I think the smaller throttle will keep a good throttle response in the mid range and will be sufficient for the top end (12500). The HP peak at 12000 on the FZ6 from what I was able to find. I can tweek that if necessary. :thumbup:Oh no , dang Martin no rest for the wicked .
Should be interesting to see if the FZ6 cams fit , but I bet there is more to the FZ6 hp increase (20hp) than just the cams .
Y
yellowfz
Yeah the LSA is going to be close I bet , would suck if it compressed valve springs to much , I looked at FZ6 motor and visually they look real close .
Yeah slapping a cam in can yield a few ponies for cheap .
Last edited by a moderator:
Martin,
I have a set of throttle bodies for the R6 I bought and never installed. They look brand new and should hook up mechanically and electrically.
I don't think the stock ones for an FZ6R are going to provide the F/A mix in the right proportions to go with the cam.
You can have them for shipping cost if interested.
FYI: This is only for Marthy boys and girls.....
I have a set of throttle bodies for the R6 I bought and never installed. They look brand new and should hook up mechanically and electrically.
I don't think the stock ones for an FZ6R are going to provide the F/A mix in the right proportions to go with the cam.
You can have them for shipping cost if interested.
FYI: This is only for Marthy boys and girls.....
You will need to check the fuel injectors, you need to know the cc's. Also verify the duty cycle. If you push them towards the 96% mark they tend to lean out. You should be able to have the injectors balanced, meaning there are places at least here to have them tested and they will make sure they are within 1% of each other. Stock injectors tend to be only within 10%, meaning even IF they are capable of theoretically run the fuel, there is a good chance of one or more cylinders leaning out.
If you don't have a pllace there let me know, I will see about finding out what they are run percentage wise.
If you don't have a pllace there let me know, I will see about finding out what they are run percentage wise.
@ John: Let me check the difference in duration first. Looking at some numbers I don't think the difference is night and days between 6R and FZ6. But I might be in for those R6 throttle. I read it somewhere before... what's the difference in dia? I would think I'll get away with the stock throttle since I won't rev any higher than 12500, not 14K. So my mean intake speed should be about the same.
R6= 41mm, FZ6=36mm, 6R=32mm. Going from 32 to 41 might be a bit too much I believe. But I can see myself trying the 36mm.
@ See Red: I understand what you mean by that. But again, the change won't be that much. I don't go turbo or more cc.
Few guys did the FZ6/R6 cams swap on the other forum without any major change. PCV and exhaust, that's it. I need to measure few things first before jumping to any conclusion.
R6= 41mm, FZ6=36mm, 6R=32mm. Going from 32 to 41 might be a bit too much I believe. But I can see myself trying the 36mm.
@ See Red: I understand what you mean by that. But again, the change won't be that much. I don't go turbo or more cc.
Few guys did the FZ6/R6 cams swap on the other forum without any major change. PCV and exhaust, that's it. I need to measure few things first before jumping to any conclusion.
Last edited:
Yeh, me too.
The only thing that worry me is the lift for now. If the lift can make it without coil binding the spring + 1mm or so it's going to be all good. All the other stuff should work. Been there, done that on cars before. Can't be that much different on bikes.
I use to mod Civic back then. Cam, headers and shave the head was good for some serious power gain! And we were reving the engine 8500 instead of 6200. I won't change the rev limiter here on the 6R. I just want to swap the cams to get a bit more duration and overlap. I don't want to kill the bottom end and just want the engine to breath a bit better on top end. The engine spin 12500, and I want it to pull all the way there!
Y
yellowfz
Back in the day a bud did a Kawa 1000 , he milled around the valve stem to accommodate taller/stronger springs , we actually had to grind some metal off in spots on the cam cover because the cam lobe was so tall it hit the cover , so I think you can do what you are after one way or another .
Keep us posted on any further development .
If you got new cams with a lot more lift would you need to get shorter valves? I understand you're looking for duration but if you need to go with more lift to get that duration that may be something to consider. If it turns out to be a pretty simple matter of changing cams and changing maps in the PCV, I'd be up to do it. Or maybe have my friend at Full Throttle PS do it for me. I could even possibly have him do it then retune on his dyno. Be interested to see what you find.
Thanks a lot!
The cams look like they can fit. Lift is .260" on the 6R and .290" on the FZ6. So that's fix!!!:wav: Still a strong 1mm before the spring coil bind.
Duration on the 6R cam is the main problem here. None... 227 deg. The FZ6 cams look like they will be perfect. The difference in duration is visible. The only problem I just ran into is the cam gear. Different but fixable. The FZ6 gear is wider and the dimension of the hole in the center is different. So now I need to order a set of 6R cams gear and machine the bore to fit the FZ6 cams.
It's all good... part of the deal. If it's as bad as it get I'll be happy! While I'm there I'll slot the gear too so I can adjust the timing where I want to.
Won't happen tonight... but soon! By the way, the FZ6 Throttle body fit right in!!! Same housing, just different butterfly! Still believe I can get away without it. The port is not any bigger than 32mm...
Dude! Sound different... let's see what the butt dyno think about this one...
Stock Intake lobe center was 102 degree. (like diesel timing...???) Since I wasn't able to go ahead with the FZ6 cams I decided to do a little test. I haven't move the exhaust cam yet. I did change the Intake one. Retard it to 108 degree. Quite a change I will admit, but 6 degree on a very detune engine is still not that much. Usually a top rev engine will be between 110-114 easy. We'll see... not as good as having more duration but it's a start.
Bike start good... I can feel it might have hurt the lower end under 3K but it seams to be rev happy pass 5K. Might just have to work on the map a bit... it's a working process.
Here for obvious reason, I won't make a "How to". If anyone know what I'm talking about, fine. Get the numbers and work it out yourself. I just don't want to go ahead and make everything in detail and have 20 people PM me next weekend because they need to spend 1K in engine work to replace bend valves. This mod, if it work the way I think it should, will give as much if not more HP that a complete exhaust mod for pretty much $0! But if $hit hit the fan (or valves) well it's going to be a expensive "Oh $hit"
Hope everyone understand. This is an "advance mod" that need to be perform by someone who did that before. Everything can go wrong here...
Thansk!
Marthy
Stock Intake lobe center was 102 degree. (like diesel timing...???) Since I wasn't able to go ahead with the FZ6 cams I decided to do a little test. I haven't move the exhaust cam yet. I did change the Intake one. Retard it to 108 degree. Quite a change I will admit, but 6 degree on a very detune engine is still not that much. Usually a top rev engine will be between 110-114 easy. We'll see... not as good as having more duration but it's a start.
Bike start good... I can feel it might have hurt the lower end under 3K but it seams to be rev happy pass 5K. Might just have to work on the map a bit... it's a working process.
Here for obvious reason, I won't make a "How to". If anyone know what I'm talking about, fine. Get the numbers and work it out yourself. I just don't want to go ahead and make everything in detail and have 20 people PM me next weekend because they need to spend 1K in engine work to replace bend valves. This mod, if it work the way I think it should, will give as much if not more HP that a complete exhaust mod for pretty much $0! But if $hit hit the fan (or valves) well it's going to be a expensive "Oh $hit"
Hope everyone understand. This is an "advance mod" that need to be perform by someone who did that before. Everything can go wrong here...
Thansk!
Marthy