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Thread: Timing change....Do it!

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    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Default Timing change....Do it!

    Big props to Martin (AKA Marthy), Rumpig from this site and FinalImpact from the FZ6 Forum for being very thorough doing all the hard research work on this mod. Maybe not for the faint of heart because if you don't do it right, your motor knocks itself to death and becomes a molten blob of aluminum.... but don't let that bother you!

    So you can search the names above to get the details, which I won't repeat here. I bought a second timing trigger in case I messed up filing it, so my bike would not be down. I think I paid $15 shipped. Mine was used from a FZ6, but it is exactly the same as ours. They are only $5-$6 on-line new, but the freight kills ya. I got mine on E-bay.

    Here are my secrets to success doing this:
    1. Buy a second trigger wheel if you want to be safe. I got it right the first time, you probably will too, but it's cheap insurance

    2. Buy a new cover gasket. It is metal, but has some gasket goo on it from the factory

    3. Index the wheel (mark it) before you remove it. Without taking a cover off the other side of the engine, there is not an easy way to hold the shaft from spinning when reinsatalling. You can use this mark to impact wrench the bolt back on, carefully, to get the torque close enough

    4. Use an impact gun to remove the trigger wheel. Easy peasy.

    5. Use a good pair of digital calipers. This is pretty precise stuff here! I believe our bikes come OEM at 6.5 degrees idle timing. The higher performance version of our engine comes OEM at 10 degrees. maybe it was 10.5 (?). The timing trigger has a nub on the back of it you want to file so it can rotate it 3-4 more degrees clockwise (more advanced) within the notch on the shaft. I choose to be a bit conservative, because filing exactly straight is not a perfect science and I live in a hot climate where timing too advanced can cause knocking.

    6. The nub on the back of the wheel that fits in the shaft keyway, starting width is 0.197" wide (un-filed). I verified this multiple times, zeroing out the caliper to get repeated same results so I wasn't holding anything crooked.... which is easy to do.

    My target was between:
    + 3.0 degrees = take off .027" (that's not much folks) Final width after filing: 0.17" = Final timing at idle: 9.5
    + 3.3 degrees = .take off:.030" Final width after filing:0.167 = Final timing at idle: 9.8

    You can see from the pics how I ended up. Pretty happy with my result.

    7. I used a fairly large file with smooth surface edge so I would not scar up the wheel to badly. I finished with a jewelers file. The smaller file was much harder to keep at 90 degrees. Not only is that very small amount to file precisely, but so is keeping it square. File a little & measure frequently!!!!

    8. Several others who documented their doing this either peened the other side of the nub, or even went to the extent of welding a bit of metal on and filing the other side to get back to the original shaft keyway width of 0.197". I was going to peen it, but after talking with Martin and seeing for myself, I don't think there is any real need to do this. So I ended up with a narrower nub, that when inserted on the shaft you could rotate it approx 3 degrees, back and forth. The thing to realize is, this wheel has no force applied to it when in use. All the bolt does that holds it there, is hold the weight of the trigger on the end of the shaft when it spins like crazy. I suppose there is some slight magnetic force from the timing pick-up. But that is minimal at best. When you tighten the bolt clockwise it automatically forces the wheel to the advanced, clockwise position against the right wall of the keyway... just where you want it. The .027-.030"" gap on the other side is immaterial. Locktight and approx 25ftlbs and that wheel is never moving.

    9. I tried using torque wrench to reinstall, but as peviously documented the shaft and cam chain spins too easily. So I very carefully used the impact gun to tighten back to the mark I indexed before I removed it. I used lock tight. Close enough. Thank you Martin for this tip!

    So what are the results? GREAT! My research said that 1st & 2nd are ignition retarded by the ECU, but 3rd and up are not. So my expectation was little improvement in the first two gears, and something noticeable starting in 3rd. Here are my findings:

    a. Bike starts faster, that is it doesn't crank as long before it starts. That's a good thing.

    b. First gear definitely pulls harder from mid to top RPM. Now, when I roll on first and hold it open, the front wheel gets lighter during the top third of the rev range. Noticeable improvement. I don't have to rip open the throttle in 1st to get air under the front tire.

    c. 3rd gear is stronger no doubt.... but it's kinda hard on my country roads to fully rev out 3rd & 4th or your approaching double digit speed. I believe there is discernible improvement though

    d. The bike sounds different. So my bike is loud as hell with essentially a Marthy exhaust using a Delkevic DS70 can, block off plates and a fully cut airbox. Seems silly to say it, but the bike is a bit quieter, and it just sounds a little different. Not good or bad, just slightly different. My "justification logic" says it sounds better. Maybe it sounds a little smoother??? Maybe me imagining that.

    e. It should improve mileage a tad, but I have not verified this.

    What are the downsides of this mod?
    1. Filing off too much or not filing it straight, advancing the timing too much and getting knock (ping), which comes from premature detonation and is hard on, or can destroy the engine. You should get enough knock warning before that point though. Listen to your bike.

    2. Where before you can use Premium or Regular gas, now you need to use Premium or it will most likely knock, especially in hot weather. If you commute a lot and want to use cheaper Regular gas, this is not the mod for you. I doubt any mileage improvement will offset the cost of Premium. I used Premium anyway, so this was a non-event for me.

    3. You may want to (need to if you advanced the timing too much) go to one heat range colder plug. It is not necessary depending one the quality Premium gas you get, how hot it is where you live and how much you advanced the ignition. If I get any knock, which I have not yet and don't expect at approx. 9 degrees, it's easy enough to go to colder plugs.

    4. You need to sit further forward to keep the wheelies down :-)

    The best part is I only have a few bucks in this mod for the used trigger (which technically I did not even need... but now I can go back to stock if I want to without buying one in the future), and the gasket.

    I am happy and recommend it, however your results may vary and I am not responsible for your bike, and I don't recommend smoking or cage fighting either so choose wisely!

    My next, an last mod coming up is to instal my -1 front sprocket. I am going to ride the bike for a few days if the weather cooperates before changing the sprocket. I think that will be enough for me, not doing + 1 or 2 in the rear. I don't ride long distances on the highway all that much, but don't want it buzzing too high at freeway speeds. I think the timing advance and 15 tooth front sprocket will liven it up enough for me. Yay.
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    Last edited by sti491; 02-23-2018 at 06:16 PM.

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    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Put a couple 100 mi of spirited twisty road riding yesterday after doing this. My son (SV650) & I switched bikes for a while too. Verdict from both of us: This mod is very worthwhile. It wakes the bike up a bit no doubt. With exhaust, air box, PC5, weight reduction all these things by themselves are incremental. Together they transform the bike. Bike is strong.

    15 T front sprocket going on today!

  3. #3

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    Great write up! Three questions for you: 1) Did you do the FZ6 cam swap with this mod, or just the trigger mod? 2) Once you completed this mod, did you have to change a map or adjust your PC map? 3) By chance can you take a pic of the fz6 part you bought that you haven't modded yet? Just wanted to kind of see a before and after if you could?
    Last edited by TN6R; 02-25-2018 at 08:17 AM.

  4. #4

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    (sti491) In your number 5 statement you mention that the high performance engine comes with 10 or 10.5 degree timing. Is it possible to just buy the HP trigger wheel that comes with the 10 or 10.5 degree build in?
    Tom

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    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdnathens View Post
    (sti491) In your number 5 statement you mention that the high performance engine comes with 10 or 10.5 degree timing. Is it possible to just buy the HP trigger wheel that comes with the 10 or 10.5 degree build in?
    Tom
    From the extensive reading I did, no. The trigger wheel has different shaped pick-up parts. But it is still essentially the same engine as ours, so it serves as a reference. I know with my son's SV650 you could buy modded timing triggers as an aftermarket part. Not for our bike. It really is not that hard to do. You just need a good pair of accurate digital calipers that are pretty cheap on Amazon, then file a little and measure a lot. .027 is very little to file off!

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    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN6R View Post
    Great write up! Three questions for you: 1) Did you do the FZ6 cam swap with this mod, or just the trigger mod? 2) Once you completed this mod, did you have to change a map or adjust your PC map? 3) By chance can you take a pic of the fz6 part you bought that you haven't modded yet? Just wanted to kind of see a before and after if you could?

    I have not done the cam swap. These two mods are independent of each other. I am considering the cam mod, but leaning not to do it. With all I have done so far the incremental gains and weight savings all together has led to much perkier and WAY more fun bike to ride. Doing cams on these bikes will surely get more top end, but I think you will lose some of the low end torque that makes the FZ6R such an awesome around town bike to begin with. I think it just depends how far you want to go with your modding, and what type of riding you do.

    I put my 15T Driven sprocket on yesterday but it has been raining ever since. I think the only other power mod I will do, is try all long and/or all short Velocity stacks in my cut airbox. Then I'll likey be done.... oh and I need some side tank pads. Tech Spec Snake Skins.

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    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN6R View Post
    Great write up! Three questions for you: 1) Did you do the FZ6 cam swap with this mod, or just the trigger mod? 2) Once you completed this mod, did you have to change a map or adjust your PC map? 3) By chance can you take a pic of the fz6 part you bought that you haven't modded yet? Just wanted to kind of see a before and after if you could?

    I don't have good pics of that. The used trigger had a slightly different part number because it came from a FZ6, but it is exactly the same dimensions. They both had the same long number, but the short number was different. The FZ6R part number is: Yamaha IGNITION PICKUP ROTOR F7T564. It also has a 20S stamped on it. The one I got used had a 5VX stamped on it. They were the same though, for sure, same timing mark placement too. Here are the pics I have. The first one is the used one before filing. It looks exactly like the OEM one off my bike. The next 2 are after I filed .027"- 0.30 off it. Second to last pic is stock trigger before I removed it. Last is my modded trigger instal.

    I can maybe take a pic for you of my stock un-molested wheel that's now in my parts drawer. It looks exactly like the second & third pics above but without .027"- 0.30 filed off it.
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    Last edited by sti491; 02-26-2018 at 06:35 AM.

  8. Thanks Marthy thanked for this post
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    Thanks for updates, I'm going to do this myself now. I had no idea this even existed by itself. I always thought it was something to do with the cam swap. Does this mod affect air fuel at all?

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    World Most Bad A$$ 6R Marthy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sti491 View Post
    I have not done the cam swap. These two mods are independent of each other. I am considering the cam mod, but leaning not to do it. With all I have done so far the incremental gains and weight savings all together has led to much perkier and WAY more fun bike to ride. Doing cams on these bikes will surely get more top end, but I think you will lose some of the low end torque that makes the FZ6R such an awesome around town bike to begin with. I think it just depends how far you want to go with your modding, and what type of riding you do.

    I put my 15T Driven sprocket on yesterday but it has been raining ever since. I think the only other power mod I will do, is try all long and/or all short Velocity stacks in my cut airbox. Then I'll likey be done.... oh and I need some side tank pads. Tech Spec Snake Skins.
    The bike get a bit "flat" under 4K rpms but no hirrible then pass 4K rpm its like hitting a switch all the way to 12K! If you timed the cams right there's no down side at all. The upside... what ever mods you did now x 2. LOL

    Martin

    Life is all about attitude. Be hard on yourself, easy on others.

    FZ6R sold...

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    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthy View Post
    The bike get a bit "flat" under 4K rpms but no hirrible then pass 4K rpm its like hitting a switch all the way to 12K! If you timed the cams right there's no down side at all. The upside... what ever mods you did now x 2. LOL
    Ok, Ok Martin.... maybe I'll do the cams. Next year maybe!

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