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Thread: Timing change....Do it!

  1. #41
    World Most Bad A$$ 6R Marthy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sti491 View Post
    Can't wait to hear what you think when done.

    I think this is a great mod to do in conjunction with a 15T front sprocket. While the sprocket affects performance in every gear (giving the feeling of more torque.... a lot more in low gears), it's REALLY is noticeable in 1st and 2nd gears. The timing mod is most noticeable in 3rd gear because the ECU retards the ignition in 1st and 2nd, sorta cancelling out the timing gain in those gears.

    What gears do you have the most fun in street riding under 80 mph?....1st, 2nd, & 3rd are the smile makers in my book. These two mods hit the jackpot!

    While it's a little hard to compare my before and after mileage because I corrected my speed/odometer just after these last two mods, I think I got on average a fraction or maybe 1 mpg improvement from the timing advance. Ripping on it in the mountains the worst I got was 38. Now the worse I get is 39. Best combined country romping 50 mph cruising 40-41 mpg.
    Offsetting the trigger wheel offset everything... timing and injectors. Unless you told the ECU you moved the trigger wheel LOL

    Martin

    Life is all about attitude. Be hard on yourself, easy on others.

    FZ6R sold...

  2. #42
    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthy View Post
    Offsetting the trigger wheel offset everything... timing and injectors. Unless you told the ECU you moved the trigger wheel LOL
    Alright Martin, this deserves more in depth dialog... Let's see if I know what I think I know, or you can school me some more... which you have been very generous doing already!

    I'm thinking you are referring to my comment about feeling the timing change more in 3rd, compared to 1st & 2nd(?)... or is it mileage? Let me know what you think of this reasoning:

    The two timing guys , Rumpeg and Final Impact I think they were that I relied on as well as you, mentioned the ECU retards the spark in first & second, no matter where you advance the trigger wheel. I thought I still felt it in 1st & 2nd, but opposite from front sprocket that affects all gears, that change seemed to pack the biggest wallop in 1st & 2nd because of the more pronounced wheelie inclination now compared to before. I thought I felt the timing change more in 3rd, or was that psychologically induced because of what I read? The ol' butt dyno can be fooled sometimes!

    You really got me thinking about, " the trigger wheel offsets injectors". I did not think this was the case. I thought the trigger change I made was akin to turning the distributor on an old school carbureted car: advance the base timing a bit by twisting it clockwise, idle increases, to a point you get a bit more power, past that pinging. The fuel being metered by the carburetor doesn't change, the spark just happens a fraction earlier for more complete combustion, hence a tad better performance (to a point) and slightly better mileage.

    Really old school mechanical distributor motors I remember back when I as teenager, didn't even have any type of advance for higher RPM's other than centrifugal weights with springs that required changing sometimes, or stiffer/looser depending the performance you wanted. But none of this affected fuel delivery, just spark timing.

    How does advancing the trigger wheel on the FZ6R change the injector timing? I'm confused on the advantage if the injectors and timing both change at the same time, earlier spark & fuel in the compression stroke = bigger bang??? As opposed to earlier spark same fuel more complete burn? My head is starting to hurt. I need enlightening on this please!
    '12 Raven/DS70/PC/Block offs/Cut air box short v-stacks/Timing adv/-1 frt sprocket/Metzeler M7RR's/90o stems/spools/sliders/GD opener/Acc-USB plugs/Volt meter/Jewel switch/Phone mount/LEDs: Amber Jewel/Headlight/Smoke tail & flush frt & pod sig-DLR/underseat red sig-brake/DMP fender eliminator/Lithium battery/Puig touring screen/Grip Puppies/Seat 1.5" higher/Rox 1" up & back risers/Gear Indicator/KTM tail pack/M1 alarm/CC/Tank Pads/SS BL/3 back surgeries/Old fart balls of steel/Happy to be here.

  3. #43
    World Most Bad A$$ 6R Marthy's Avatar
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    The ECU used the trigger wheel (crank position sensor) to know when to spark and inject fuel, not like the good old carbs day where you only worry about a distributor to adjust spark timing. The spark advance here is what really counts. The injectors are open about 75% of the time at max load at 12K RPM so +/- 2 or 3 degree won't be a big deal. If there was an ECU flash for the FZ6R it wound be so much better but for a $0.00 mod the return on investment is really good LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by sti491 View Post
    Alright Martin, this deserves more in depth dialog... Let's see if I know what I think I know, or you can school me some more... which you have been very generous doing already!

    I'm thinking you are referring to my comment about feeling the timing change more in 3rd, compared to 1st & 2nd(?)... or is it mileage? Let me know what you think of this reasoning:

    The two timing guys , Rumpeg and Final Impact I think they were that I relied on as well as you, mentioned the ECU retards the spark in first & second, no matter where you advance the trigger wheel. I thought I still felt it in 1st & 2nd, but opposite from front sprocket that affects all gears, that change seemed to pack the biggest wallop in 1st & 2nd because of the more pronounced wheelie inclination now compared to before. I thought I felt the timing change more in 3rd, or was that psychologically induced because of what I read? The ol' butt dyno can be fooled sometimes!

    You really got me thinking about, " the trigger wheel offsets injectors". I did not think this was the case. I thought the trigger change I made was akin to turning the distributor on an old school carbureted car: advance the base timing a bit by twisting it clockwise, idle increases, to a point you get a bit more power, past that pinging. The fuel being metered by the carburetor doesn't change, the spark just happens a fraction earlier for more complete combustion, hence a tad better performance (to a point) and slightly better mileage.

    Really old school mechanical distributor motors I remember back when I as teenager, didn't even have any type of advance for higher RPM's other than centrifugal weights with springs that required changing sometimes, or stiffer/looser depending the performance you wanted. But none of this affected fuel delivery, just spark timing.

    How does advancing the trigger wheel on the FZ6R change the injector timing? I'm confused on the advantage if the injectors and timing both change at the same time, earlier spark & fuel in the compression stroke = bigger bang??? As opposed to earlier spark same fuel more complete burn? My head is starting to hurt. I need enlightening on this please!

    Martin

    Life is all about attitude. Be hard on yourself, easy on others.

    FZ6R sold...

  4. #44
    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Interesting, Thanks!

    Ever hear of this company? https://ecunleashed.com/product/2010-yamaha-fz6-r-2/

    Not cheap. Wonder how well they do changing fuel & ignition? Being already invested in an PC5 and happy with Adv Gear Rev B map, doesn't seem practical for me(?) Wonder what the deal is with this, few seem to be doing it and talking about it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Marthy View Post
    The ECU used the trigger wheel (crank position sensor) to know when to spark and inject fuel, not like the good old carbs day where you only worry about a distributor to adjust spark timing. The spark advance here is what really counts. The injectors are open about 75% of the time at max load at 12K RPM so +/- 2 or 3 degree won't be a big deal. If there was an ECU flash for the FZ6R it wound be so much better but for a $0.00 mod the return on investment is really good LOL
    '12 Raven/DS70/PC/Block offs/Cut air box short v-stacks/Timing adv/-1 frt sprocket/Metzeler M7RR's/90o stems/spools/sliders/GD opener/Acc-USB plugs/Volt meter/Jewel switch/Phone mount/LEDs: Amber Jewel/Headlight/Smoke tail & flush frt & pod sig-DLR/underseat red sig-brake/DMP fender eliminator/Lithium battery/Puig touring screen/Grip Puppies/Seat 1.5" higher/Rox 1" up & back risers/Gear Indicator/KTM tail pack/M1 alarm/CC/Tank Pads/SS BL/3 back surgeries/Old fart balls of steel/Happy to be here.

  5. #45
    World Most Bad A$$ 6R Marthy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sti491 View Post
    Interesting, Thanks!

    Ever hear of this company? https://ecunleashed.com/product/2010-yamaha-fz6-r-2/

    Not cheap. Wonder how well they do changing fuel & ignition? Being already invested in an PC5 and happy with Adv Gear Rev B map, doesn't seem practical for me(?) Wonder what the deal is with this, few seem to be doing it and talking about it?
    Yes, those guys are legit! They did some great flash work on the FZ09. Dynojet has a timing devise also, like the PCV. But the end results would be about the same of what you just did

    Martin

    Life is all about attitude. Be hard on yourself, easy on others.

    FZ6R sold...

  6. #46
    Senior Member sti491's Avatar
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    Cool, thx.
    '12 Raven/DS70/PC/Block offs/Cut air box short v-stacks/Timing adv/-1 frt sprocket/Metzeler M7RR's/90o stems/spools/sliders/GD opener/Acc-USB plugs/Volt meter/Jewel switch/Phone mount/LEDs: Amber Jewel/Headlight/Smoke tail & flush frt & pod sig-DLR/underseat red sig-brake/DMP fender eliminator/Lithium battery/Puig touring screen/Grip Puppies/Seat 1.5" higher/Rox 1" up & back risers/Gear Indicator/KTM tail pack/M1 alarm/CC/Tank Pads/SS BL/3 back surgeries/Old fart balls of steel/Happy to be here.

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